graphite @ graphite @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

So they should have... done nothing and given in?

Given in to what? The same dynamic that the majority of social media companies have imposed on their users?

One thing to remember is TPA users (of which I was one) were 3% of the website. 3%. Not a very large figure.

In this capitalistic environment, the dynamic is built off of the most a-moral "fuck you, we can get away with it" approach to business that operates within legal bounds that ultimately allow for a corporation to come out on top. Maybe they break a law, have to pay fines, whatever; as long as they can still profit and make investors/shareholders happy, they're probably going to get away with it.

Yes, it's fucked up. 9/10 times, it doesn't matter what the media says and it doesn't matter what the users say.

It sucks, but like Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Google, Apple, etc. all of which have screwed their users over on multiple occasions, they're still in business, chugging along, people are still using their services.

The alternative choice is Stockholm Syndrome.

By that logic, what's the difference if, after all of this, still nothing changes and you still use their service?

We have Lemmy, kbin, Mastodon, etc. They're a great alternative.

Yes, the communities aren't as fleshed out, over time it will get better.

Reddit is thankfully more optional than a lot of other services.

You can stop using Reddit and go about your day to day obligations.

Services like Amazon and Google are a lot harder to give up.

I wonder what we could do to prevent things like this from happening in the future?

Maybe looking more into the political frameworks that exist, laws, and thinking realistically about what changes can be made in the near future, while also trying to understand the challenges that we would be faced against.

Maybe they're not as smart as you'd like.

You think I want them to be smart? Lol.

Something controversial happens -> a lot of people get pissed off (understandably so) -> media milks the shit out of the event -> narratives - true, false, embellished, whatever get created -> mischaracterization for anyone who's approach to handling the situation isn't in line with majority rule, blah blah blah -> the bad guys (usually) walk away fine.

That's a very common cycle.

I wasn't happy with what happened, but it's been 2 months at this point, and what I've gathered is that nothing is going to change.

And yet because I say that these protests are fruitless people get mad and go absolutely nuts on the downvote button.

Sorry, I was under the impression we could have an open discussion without making assumptions in bad faith about people who disagree with the rationale.

My bad 🤚

Literally me

Its interface is pretty meh I'll give you that

Yes.

but that doesn’t change the fact that these actions are unprecedented and a huge betrayal of trust, and there’s nothing wrong with people (especially those that invested a lot of time and effort into building the site into what it is today) being upset at reddit for this.

I agree with you.

I had been using Reddit for a long time, so I understand.

I don't think the blackout was productive: it was never going to change their minds, they just didn't want to have give moderators the boot in the end.

The company’s model is fundamentally not under their own control, which is a knife that cuts both ways.

That's like saying Facebook's model is not fundamentally under its own control. The same with Twitter, or any other social media.

Calling it a hijacking when it was never under anyone else’s control is not just wrong, it’s actually entirely backwards. Reddit is the one hijacking the subreddits.

Reddit owns the servers which host the subreddits.

Preventing users from accessing your subreddit, as a moderater (who is also not an employee of the company), as a form of protest, is a means of trying to control the website's overall behavior.

So, yes, it is a high jacking attempt. Not an effective one, but one nonetheless.

The mods and users knew exactly what would happen, either Reddit changes, or they double down.

They obviously didn't know exactly what would happen, because if they did, they wouldn't have bothered.

You're listing two possible outcomes and pairing them as a single event, which doesn't make sense.

Reddit was never going to change - that's my point. They were definitely going to double down.

These people are moderators. They do not "run" the company. They moderate a subreddit.

Yes, they maintain communities that make Reddit actually viable and "worth" something in the first place.

Yes, those people put in a lot of time and effort that, in a just world, they would be compensated for.

No, we do not live in a just world.

No, Reddit is not legally obligated to compensate them.

Put all that together...and, well, given the nature of the initial "we're going to sell the shit of your data" move they pulled, what makes you think that they would have a change of heart?

How is closing subreddits in protest not basically trying to take control of the situation?

They don't care about any of that though. They knew this was going to happen before they made the announcement.

Do you really think they were that out of touch?

What did they really think was going to happen?

They're going to kick and ban people who are trying to hijack the company. That should be a given, because it makes sense.

Or something out of a David Cronenberg movie

Disagree. But it should remain dead as long as these shenanigans remain

Running a virus scan wouldn't be enough

No, those can be bypassed. If your kernel is what's infected, then it's probably not going to find anything either.

Scanners are useful, but what they can look for is limited.

public image is important in the long term, and he completely ruined that.

It's not important if the shareholders can net a specific amount in the short term that makes them happy.

He would have made far more by preserving it.

Well, that's the thing. I'm saying as long as he meets a threshold that makes the shareholders/investors happy, then he's competent.

Besides, the "public image" of the website has always been mediocre at best. Maybe 2 levels of quality higher than 4chan.

Remember, r/watchpeopledie used to be a subreddit. For a long, long time.

Where is the incompetence? His competency is dependent on making money for a specific few.

It has nothing to do with the outcome of the site, beyond how that outcome influences said making of money.

If the shareholders cash out happy and the site dies out, he did his job, regardless of whether or not you think that's fair.

Yes, it sucks for the rest of us who liked Reddit. I am one of those people.

Saying this guy is incompetent just because his interests go against the interests of people who use Reddit is ludicrous.

The interests are in conflict, it sucks. That's it. We have Lemmy. Get over it.

"nuh-uh-uh, you didn't raise my pay"

Not only that, but with Dems it's all morphine.

The cancer is terminal.

Yeap. It's a sad thing. And it only contributes to more polarization, which is fucking terrible.