flora_explora @ flora_explora @beehaw.org

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627

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2 yr. ago

I agree. Somehow it feels as if if goes deeper though. There are people who are deeply traumatized by society and then turn to completely oppose this perceived threat. I know this from trans spaces or from people who are deep in the Israel/Palestine conflict. There is a strongly moralizing factor dividing the world into good and bad. Speaking from my own perspective, I could also divide the world into evil cis people and good trans people. And this certainly seems appealing sometimes. But there are people, and I would put Adriana Guzmán in this category, who go through the world identifying all the hardships with this threat, this evil. Your thesis didn't work out? It was the hegemonic science who didn't let me. I really don't mean that in a mean way. But it is very frustrating to interact with people like this. (I know I have my own issues that heighten my frustration even more though.) It is really hard to withstand this eternal conflict that we all are trapped in this complex world of power struggles, microaggressions and discrimination. It certainly feels easier to position yourself on the side of "the good" fighting against the evil. However, if you anyone is really honest with themselves we have to admit that we are really all helping perpetuate the hegemonic standard in some way. We can only really strive to do our best. But this doesn't appeal to everyone I guess and so there are people like the interviewee who divide the world into good vs bad...

Wow, this is really impressive!! Thanks :)

I have tried digging up just a bit of some plant roots for an experiment once and it was just so much work! Can't imagine how much effort this must have been for everyone involved :O

Could you maybe add some context to this? Where are these from and how where they done? Are these based on real plant root systems studied by what method?

You did not read any further then the very first link and already claim that I'm wrong? Also, most of what you wrote is probably aligned with your own emotions but logically doesn't make a lot of sense.

I don't want to trigger you and please take care of yourself. But please also refrain from spamming this thread with made up claims because you feel threatened by them. Because in doing so you actually really prove your lack of empathy and how you don't care about others.

You are not the only one triggered by this topic. Surviving parents with NPD and multiple similar longterm romantic relationships mean I get triggered as well if someone wants to tell me that people like these are not abusive. And yes, the abuse was directly linked to narcissistic traits in each case. So don't tell me otherwise unless you can prove it.

If you really want to convince me, you would need to link to actual research or anything that can show how NPD and abusiveness are not linked. Just by telling personal anecdotes you are not convincing anyone, the opposite actually.

Please see my other comment where I gave you a bunch of references to how pwNPD are definitely abusive.

You were asked to attempt to better communicate by presumably another neurodivergent person in a neurodivergent community. Don't use some bullshit analogy of oppression to justify your lack of empathy.

Oh wow, I know you are venting here and I don't want to take that from you. I get that you are frustrated. I have a similar story and am also mostly incapable of self-love or self-worth. But instead of turning out a pwNPD, I got to have all the empathy my mother is lacking.

But please, you are doing standard victim blaming here. It's probably not worth going into detail here because you don't seem self-aware enough to get why your actions may be perceived very differently by others than by you.

I get that society is in so far unfair to people with NPD or pedophiles because it does usually only portrait their worst qualities. But neither pwNPD nor pedophiles are monsters. That's why I compared NPD to pedophilia in my other comment. You have the traits to abuse others, but the choice is still yours. People with pedophilia also deserve our empathy. The struggle must be really hard on you. In yet another comment I cited many studies I found on NPD and what they basically all talked about was not only the abusiveness and lack of empathy of pwNPD but also the strong interpersonal problems they face.

I'm sorry for you, but please at least try to be a bit self-aware and don't gaslight us into thinking pwNPD are not commonly abusive and manipulative.

This is a logical fallacy. Your example doesn't work. Your mother wasn't abusive because she was a woman, so why would you associate her abusiveness with her womanhood? NPD on the other hand directly leads to abusive, manipulative and exploitative behaviour. So in this case NPD is directly associated with abusiveness. And yes, I have met my fair share with pwNPD (or other personality disorders). I have also some experience with being in psychiatric clinics, so I have met many people with various mental problems/disorders.

But all this is not to say that pwNPD are not human beings with their own struggles and needs, too. Obviously pwNPD suffer greatly from their condition and it pains me a lot how hard it is to actually provide support for them. It is a really messed up situation that pwNPD are mostly incapable of self-awareness and (affective) empathy that it is nearly impossible to help them :(

Do you have any references to back up this claim? From personal experience I most strongly disagree with your statement. I have suffered all my life from narcissistic people and even many years of therapy were not sufficient to surpass my childhood trauma.

Also, if you don't want to take a subjective perspective there is really a looot of research that shows how abusive people with NPD are.

"Narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by self-absorption, grandiosity, exploitation of others and lack of empathy. [...] Empathy represents a key point in detecting people affected by narcissistic personality disorder because, even if it is described as reduced, it plays a fundamental role in exploitation and manipulation. [...] Subjects with NPD may experience those problems with affective empathy because they feel others’ emotions as threatening and dangerous and react with detachment to preserve their own personal integrity. In addition to exploitation, a lack of empathic affectivity appears associated with proneness to criminal behaviors, particularly when NPD coexists with antisocial traits, contributing to psychopathy.".

"The interpersonal style of the more narcissistic patients was particularly characterized by domineering, vindictive, and intrusive behavior."

"higher levels of narcissism were significantly associated with more interpersonal impairment, particularly characterized by domineering, vindictive, and overly nurturing behaviour."

"Five studies investigated the links among narcissism, self-esteem, and love. Across all studies, narcissism was associated primarily with a game-playing love style. [...] Narcissists' game-playing love style was the result of a need for power and autonomy."

"Pathological narcissism is marked by deficits in psychosocial functioning. Difficulties in relationships include instances of aggression, devaluation and control [...] In response, participants (the narcissists' partners and family members) reported high levels of anxiety, depression, self-aggression, sickness and somatic concerns.

"The present study examined the relationship of grandiose and vulnerable narcissism with dispositional anger and hostility. We investigated the roles of neuroticism, emotional intelligence, and gender in this relationship [...] The results indicated that vulnerable narcissism was associated with a higher tendency toward anger and hostility, and that neuroticism accounted for a large part of this association. Poor emotion managing, known as strategic emotion regulation ability, also played a role in hostility related to vulnerable narcissism, especially among men. When emotional stability was controlled for, grandiose narcissism showed links to anger and hostility. We concluded that high neuroticism and poor emotion regulation abilities among vulnerable narcissists contribute to increased anger/hostility, whereas emotional stability likely protects grandiose narcissists against these internal aspects of aggression."

"Qualitative semi-structured interviews with seven participants who reported being in a relationship with a narcissistic partner were thematically analyzed. Three overarching themes emerged: (a) overt and covert expressions of abuse, (b) challenge to self-perceived authority, and (c) fear of abandonment. Findings suggest both grandiose and vulnerable narcissists’ reactions to narcissistic injury are most likely covertly and overtly aggressive and violent; however, the underlying motives for the behavior differed. For grandiose narcissists, violence was commonly triggered by threats to self-esteem, whereas vulnerable narcissists commonly experienced significant injury and rage from fear of abandonment."

I could go on citing studies on this. I wonder what counter-evidence you'll be able to produce.

Oooh, this sounds really nice! Thanks for the recommendation ♥

Since I've listened to Biotopia (in Spanish though) I haven't been able to find any fictional podcast that is as great. But I'm enjoying the bright sessions quite a bit :)

What kind of response are you expecting? Or is this just a rant/vent? I don't agree with your statement entirely, many people would also want people with NPD, psychopathy or sociopathy to get support. The problem, however, is that it is really hard for most to give people with strong narcissistic or manipulative traits the support they need. Similarly, I also have compassion with pedophiles and wish them the support they need. But obviously I don't want them to be enabled (or even allowed) to follow their sexuality. Same goes for people with narcissistic and manipulative traits. I want them to get support but not be enabled or allowed to hurt or manipulate others.

Recently I stumbled upon this podcast called "The Bright Sessions" where they basically envision neurodivergent people and/or people with mental disorders as having superhuman powers. There also is a character that might fall into your description of people who are not treated with compassion. The podcast really explores what that means and how compassion can look like with a person like that.

ETA: and this comes from a person who has been traumatized over decades by various people with strong narcissistic traits.

Yeah, I get that. While "no ethical consumption under capitalism" shouldn't be used to justify passivity, each individual person has their own limits to what they can reasonably achieve. Sometimes when I'm traveling and my anxiety peaks, I also eat dairy products/eggs because I cannot mentally afford to search for vegan alternatives. It's so hard to always keep the balance between doing what you can and trying to stay sane.

I've been using startpage for years and don't really miss the missing location features. But I hardly leave the house anyways.

Thanks! Taking pictures of animals, plants and fungi certainly helps a lot. I post them on iNaturalist as well! (Definite recommendation for everyone who hasn't heard of it!!)

I don't know. I find the underlying principle of kagi a bit problematic. For example, look at what they say in this piece here. I get that any search engine that is "free" but sponsored by ads is gonna be skewed towards the advertisers. But like kagi phrases their response, it sounds somewhat classist. If you can afford a good search engine, you deserve better search results. If you don't, well, your bad. I mean, it's OK if they finance themselves by being a paid service. But this should be only a necessary first step before finding other ways to finance themselves.

I'd love to do that, too. But I'm a bit overwhelmed with setting it up :/

Wow, it's been ages since I've used google without a layer of privacy in between and haven't realized how comfortable it would be with all its spying power enabled. But anyways, I find it scary that companies like google try to get so much information about you that they then sell to third parties. I'd rather have less comfortability if it means I have control over my own data. And I guess Kagi could be better in this regard if they value your privacy while still having some data on you.

Haha, by being so depressed that I cannot do a lot in my garden even if I wanted to xD But jokes aside, I really love having a wild garden and taking pictures of everything. I don't like cultivated plants all that much.

Haha, these ones are so shy I have problems taking pictures of them. I get that people are scared by insects and especially anything wasp/beelike. But there is really no need to :)

So glad you all agreed that you should use Linux instead :)

I 100% agree