enbyecho @ enbyecho @lemmy.world

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1 yr. ago

Ah, I see. You really just want to hear yourself talk and are too intellectually lazy to engage with anyone else's ideas.

So capitalism is "ok"... sometimes?

If investments in stocks is "just as much capitalist behavior" then what makes investments in real estate somehow worse? Because you could literally be investing in companies that, as an example, seek to privatize access to water or healthcare or other things I would consider basic human rights just as much as housing. At a minimum all companies exploit the labor of their workers in parasitic ways.

"feels a little less negative on the working class" is highly subjective. I can personally see no difference between owning real estate and renting it out vs investing in companies that exploit people in other ways. Many capitalist activities that you could invest in have extremely far-reaching and long-term adverse effects, some very direct, such as use of fossil fuels.

So quite literally it feels like many complain about landlords as a kind of bogey man while the chemical plant down the road is giving their kids brain damage and another is denying them basic health care.

In a circular or planned economy, those aren’t really significant measures,

Ok, sure - you just said "different" and did not specify.

As mentioned in the last reply, the Palace of Knossos, as well as the Petra were marvels of craftsmanship and engineering, staggering investments,

That involved massive exploitation and slave labor. And let's not forget significant taxation, looting, etc.

You comparing them with modern construction methods necessitated by capitalism

I'm comparing them because I'm making the point that profit, price pressures and inflation obviously arise when private entities make huge capital investments.

So now that you've actually specified "different" as meaning non-capitalist systems, it leads me to wonder if you thought King Minos sought out volunteers... or did he pay everyone fairly? Are you really using "public" works built under autocratic rule as positive examples we can replicate?

I keep forgetting that Truth Social is an actual company…

You misspelled "scam"

[citation needed]

Important lessons here kids. Just sayin'

First up, so it's clear, I actually agree with you. But I also don't think this is an easy thing.

If you’re aware of public and social housing then why are you asking how community ownership and management works?

Because there is a hiccup in your logic as far as I can discern it.

On the one hand you say: "of course all rental housing should be publicly owned."

And on the other, "I’m not certain that all housing should be public"

So how does that work?

1. How does the housing become public? That's trillions of dollars worth of property. I actually got the figure of US$7 quadrillion but I don't believe it. What's more, 70% of the 19.3 million rental properties in the US are owned by individual investors, meaning you'd have to either confiscate or buy from millions of individuals. I mean, it wouldn't make sense to just build all this housing if it's already there. Maybe a combination? But where on earth does that money come from? And how do you convince people invested in a $1.4 trillion market to give up that income?
2. So let's say somehow #1 happens over some period of time. How then do you meet ongoing demand? I get what your saying - there are examples of this working (for some values of "work") on a small scale but over the entire rental market?
3. If the public via governments has paid for all this housing at current prices, how do we then ensure rents are low? Over time yes, we can forgo all but the bare minimum rent increases to match inflation, but initially we have to foot the bill somehow. Because presumably that money has to be borrowed and we have to pay interest on it on top of ongoing maintenance, etc - there are real costs involved.

Indeed. And it's been fascinating to see the logical inconsistency of "landlords bad but capitalism good".

So tl;dr investment can be for good or can be for ill. I'd argue any investment ends up prioritizing profit over any ethical concerns no matter what they say. As you say, in essence: Profit motive does that. Venture capital demands it.

The abhorrent behavior is buying multiple houses and charging rent that is high enough to not just cover mortgage and maintenance but also turn a large profit, enough to where you can live entirely off of it at the expense of your tenants.

I would certainly agree with that. But those actions also perfectly describe any capitalist behavior. And it's that inconsistency in views that I've been poking at here. Some want to excuse other capital-focused actions as acceptable but then condemn real estate as though somehow that's different. To me both are essentially exploitative.

Profit, price pressures, inflation are not necessarily meaningful terms in a different system.

What exactly do you mean by that?

Homes have been built for many thousands of years longer than we’ve had those as concepts.

If you include cedar bark as a major construction material then sure. Not knocking cedar bark here - it's great. But not quite the same investment in time or durability.

I am in a position to be a landlord and choose not to be.

IOW, you are in a position to not need the income. I.e. you could afford the usurious prices for real estate.

If I'm going to infer political attitudes I try to make sure there's a little more evidence than "I disagree with you".

And that's what "tankies" has become - a pejorative meaning "people I disagree with"

Go head downvote all you want but it's true.

It's almost like... it's... a... job. How strange.

Buying a house as an “investment” is what we call “scalping” in other businesses.

Actually, it's called capitalism. Buying anything and selling it at a profit increases prices. Strange... but true.

What constitutes an "investment"?

If you buy a home and have a roommate so you can afford the mortgage is that an investment?

If you buy a home and then sell it down the road for a profit, is that an investment?

Yes, apparently you are a parasite but not to worry you can afford your mortgage by offering a product or service on a temporary basis, for a fee.

Edit: Is it that people have no sense of humor?

No sheet.

Ok, so you want all housing to be publicly owned? That would be interesting...

That is NOT how you huff gas, man.

"people I disagree with", in other words