emptiestplace @ emptiestplace @lemmy.ml

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1

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451

Joined

2 yr. ago

As someone who sees religion as a scourge on society and the unfettered, tax-free existence of churches as little more than a symptom, I wasn't crazy about the possible implication that church attendance was required in order for one to be considered prosocial.

As a critical thinker, church is unlikely to be high on your list of socializing options - unless you’re conducting some kind of experiment.

No; they do exactly what they were designed to do

Are we arguing semantics here?

https://www.jasonwei.net/blog/emergence https://arxiv.org/pdf/2206.07682.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/2304.15004.pdf

I could be wrong, obviously, but I don't think this is as straightforward or settled as you are suggesting.

I believe I understand everything you are saying and why you are saying it. I think you are completely missing the point, though. LLMs already do quite a few things they were not designed to do. Also, your idea of sentience seems very limited. Yes, with our biological computers we have some degree of presence over "time", but is that critical - or is it just critical for us due to our limited faculties.

What if "the internet" developed some form of self-awareness - would we know? Our entire society could be subtly manipulated through carefully placed latency spikes, for example. I'm not saying this is happening, just that I think you are incredibly overconfident because you have an understanding of LLMs current lack of state etc.

If we added a direct feedback mechanism - realtime or otherwise - we could start seeing more compelling emergent properties develop. What about feedback and ability to self-modify?

These systems are processing information on a level we cannot even pretend to comprehend. How can you be so certain that a single training refinement couldn't result in some sort of spark - curiosity, desire to be introspective, whatever.

Perhaps Hofstadter is losing his mind - but I think we should at least consider the possibility that his concern is warranted. We are not special.

You seem unfamiliar with the concept of consciousness as an emergent property.

What if we dramatically reduce the cost of training - what if we add realtime feedback mechanisms as part of a perpetual model refinement process?

As far as I'm aware, we don't know.

How are you so confident that your feelings are not simply a consequence of complexity?

I am picking up a hint of the autocompletion you describe, in your writing.

you weren't kidding

share it with us

I feel like I should like it, but its episodic nature completely ruins it for me.

13 Mini

I think we should focus on quality and thoughtful discussion. I appreciate stupid memes too, but if it were up to me that would be secondary - even if overall popularity takes a hit.

Also, less concern over Reddit would be nice. I was there from the Digg exodus until the API drama, so I understand the change aspect quite well, but if genuine conversation is what matters to you, the correct people are here now.

It's like asking someone why they care about advances in other types of remedial care like bypass surgery or whatever.

So you actually believe that was a reasonable question?

Is this the most intellectually dishonest thing you were able to come up with on short notice?

We are biologically predisposed to selfishness. You can frame this with political colors that ostensibly represent “thoughtful and empathetic” versus “thoughtless and 'fuck you, I’ve got mine'”, but it’s not entirely clear that either side isn't inherently motivated by selfishness. And that's our ultimate failing, predictor of our demise.

Regarding diversity trends, I agree. Thank you for reminding me how it was. I do worry though: is counter-culture as popular culture counterproductive? Could that be by design?

Not American.

Eh. I think the internet is making us intellectually docile more than anything else - outliers may be profound and inspirational, but the inertia of the status quo renders them inconsequential.

I debated whether to put ‘making us’ in quotes, but then wondered if it’s actually ‘the internet’ that merits that distinction. Both, I suppose...

No, not really - but I am also not sure anything could change that.

I understand what you're saying, but it seems like you're in this sort of essential/existential purgatory. Do you really believe a lack of pride is one of our collective shortcomings?

I used to be so optimistic about the change the internet would bring: with unlimited communication around the world, differences would fade, and geopolitical borders would start to blur. I think I was probably just projecting my own oversensitive and hyper-empathetic existence onto the world, because it is pretty clear that we are fundamentally stuck, terminally unable to overcome our tribal instincts.