Efficiency test of my 2024 Prius Prime: Gasoline vs Electricity in my first week.
dragontamer @ dragontamer @lemmy.world Posts 17Comments 1,148Joined 2 yr. ago
dragontamer @ dragontamer @lemmy.world
Posts
17
Comments
1,148
Joined
2 yr. ago
1200+ words across 6 seperate posts according to MS Word, though I admit I'm not copy/pasting very carefully.
Look man, under no uncertain terms I've stated the following:
- I've lost trust and faith that you and I could have a reasonable discussion.
- I'm willing to insult you directly to make the point#1 crystal clear.
I'm not sure where you think you can bring this discussion forward from this spot, or what is going on in your brain to think that writing additional walls of text to me is a productive use of your time. And I'm honestly not sure what I can say that is a productive use of my time. And this is what I want, because again, point#1, I've lost faith that you and I could possibly hold a reasonable discussion on this matter at the moment.
Try again in the next topic or next time we talk or something.
Oh yes.
But a wire's resistance is purely ohmic (or damn near a pure resistance, very little inductance or capacitance to discuss).
So seeing a voltage sag of 120V (original) to 118V across the 11 Amps my charger pulls means we can calculate the resistance to be 0.2Ohms.
The rest of the 118V to the charger and the car is the usable power. After all, the current is constant (11Amps).
Power = Voltage * Current.
With 2V * 11Amps being wire waste (22W in the wires in my home), and roughly 1298W delivered to the actual charger
Additional losses are clearly evident (winter, battery heater, air conditioner etc. etc.) later. But the 22W of wire-heat waste / 1320W of power drawn from my power meter (where my electric bill is calculated) is the 1.5ish% loss of this element.
So the 1.5W is literally the loss in my homes wires, before accounting for the charger itself heating up.
It sounds like you know all this but just want to clarify and double check.
And this guy in this thread says his Prius gets 45mpg to 63mpg, depending on conditions: https://lemmy.world/comment/13866193
Oh wait, my numbers say 53mpg. American gallons and American miles.
Now unless you have done a test yourself, bugger the fuck off. I'm not interested in Internet rumors, I'm interested in the Truth. I don't know how the fuck your numbers are so far away from reality but that's your problem.
The fact remains that I have hard numbers and have run the tests. You haven't.
You want them to take it back. Do so.e research, and prove them wrong. Otherwise, stop shouting.
BTW: Seriously, you seem naive to me so let me give you a serious protip.
If someone thinks you are biased on the internet, and you owe them nothing (not like a close friend or a family or something), you STOP TALKING WITH THEM BECAUSE ITS A WASTE OF TIME. And I've found that shouting, and direct insults, is the fastest way to make it clear that I'm ending the discussion.
Again: don't waste your time trying to prove yourself against baseless accusations on internet. Its not worth the hassle. If you find yourself doing that, you are the one who will get stressed out in the long term.
So I reject your advice and instead replace it with the exact opposite. Get angry. Shout, end the discussion. Then move on with your life. The discussion has been blown up, so its easier to move on. Don't lol "do research" on behalf of other people who don't give two shits about you and drag on the unnecessary discussion for days. They never were going to believe you anyway, because they thought you were biased from the start.
You know what would solve all of this?
I have an alternative plan. How about YOU run a 200 mile test? Go rent a Prius or borrow one from a friend. Drive it 200 miles in the 30F winter cold and tell me how many gallons were used.
I'll wait. A day, a week, a month, a year. Go put your actions where your mouth is.
Oh, you won't do it? What about the other guy? Uh huh. You expect me to do it?
Well there's the rub, ain't it? I guess I just accept that I'm biased then.
He has rightfully stated that the data you based your whole post on is likely wrong.
With what evidence? Please, I seem to have missed it.
Yes. But you know who owes me something? The other guy owes me to take back his baseless bias accusations.
Come back in a day, week, month or year. It won't be taken back.
You are issuing challenges to the wrong guy. I have nothing more to give you or prove to anyone here. (Well, I'll do a gasoline test eventually because I truly am curious. But it has to wait until I'm personally got the time for it).
it doesnt say much about the peraon carrying out the tests if they freak out the moment they are challenged on their results
Why should I give a shit about that? I'm not like a professional journalist with a reputation to uphold. Lol.
People who didn’t intend or want to ruin your day but did anyway because pointing out minor imperfections in your argument makes you mad?
You enjoy this and continue to post massive walls of text proving you are enjoying this.
An honest person doesn't continue to post here. An honest person would seek to apologize or make amends (if they posted).
A sane person would have called the mods on me and/or blocked me by now. Your actions though, to continue posting?
Yeah, gotcha.
Putting my edit at the top.
Yes. Apologies for that. I'm thinking plenty of things on this subject.
But rest assured I'm mad and I'm proud to display my anger on this discussion. I can see you are an honest and reasonable outsider so it's different than the other guy.
I made it clear that to do the test they're asking for is four fucking hours of test at a minimum.
And then they come back and call me fucking biased. Okay you fucking asshole. You run the test. Don't complain to me.
The fucking gasoline test is going to take a long time, it's going to force me off of EV mode for literally days and I've actually got busy things this week (wedding, work, etc. etc). I have no time to do a substantial gasoline test anytime soon.
You may absolutely have planned these tests perfectly, and the other person may be wrong. But if they are, then prove it
The other asshole hasn't tested jack shit and is just bullshitting from his keyboard. I owe him, and you, nothing.
I've offered my test data on the internet. I don't have anything else to offer.
As I said before and I'll say it again: if he wants to spend hours answering this question, and if I get a free stab to call him biased in the new topic he makes, then yes, I'll change my tune. But we all know he's just trolling me.
What, you think I have the test data you want or something? That these fuel test results magic themselves out of the air? Someone actually has to take the time and do this test.
Now if you address their claim then this whole matter is put to bed. But by all means, carry on insulting them
Lulz. I owe you and him nothing. I did the tests in the top of the page and I stand by my tests. I don't owe additional tests (let alone fucking hours of work) to anyone else.
Do you think the temperature stays still? The temperature in my area is back up to 50F today, which if I started the gasoline test it would have negated the results. This shit changes per fuel type and and per temperature.
All they said was they thought you might be biased, and you exploded
Yup. Because it's not honest. It's clear the discussion is worthless at that point.
If they can't even hold the pretense of an honest discussion, none of the words after will matter. So might as well get this over with and make it clear that I intend to end the discussion unless they back down from the bias accusations.
Protip: if the other guy in a discussion thinks you are biased, it's a waste of time to engage in honest discussion. It doesn't matter if they are a MAGA conspiracy theorist or a fanboy or anything. The discussion goes nowhere and I'm confident it's a waste of time.
And it's a waste of time, I need to make it clear in no uncertain terms that I'm ending the discussion ASAP.
If you see my point about bias then I'm happy with the words I've selected. It's made it clear what I'm mad about. Second tip: if someone is insulting you and making you mad, it's okay to be mad on the internet and show your emotions. We don't have to be robots.
Now tell me, am I actually wrong in any of this?
Note that winter-blend fuel has 10% or less energy in it. Summer-blend fuel has the most energy. And then E15 has less energy, depending on the current market of Ethanol vs Gasoline, you'll get a little bit more or less energy out per gallon of gasoline.
The variance is expected. No two gallons of gasoline is exactly the same, there's many blends in the USA and the blends change season-to-season, location-to-location, and even as the laws shift (0% Ethanol decades ago, 10% typically today, and a smooth blend up and down from there depending on what the gas stations decide).
genuinely I’m sorry at how cross that makes you
which is probably why I’m enjoying my car so much more than you seem to be.
Yup. As I said before and I'll say again. Fuck you. You are a fucking child and I'm happy to have called you out on this.
Grow the fuck up. Don't pretend to issue apologies when you clearly have no intention on following through. You can't even get through your apology post before deciding to attack again.
I've dealt with your kind before and I'll continue to call you out on it.
But don't worry. You didn't fail any expectations of mine. I never expected you to pass this simple test.
Come back when you actually have evidence to share and more than just insults.
I’m sorry for making you cross
Lulz, No you're not. Every fucking EV asshole talks the same as you do. You're probably congratulating yourself for triggering me. Don't worry, I'm not a dumbass. So I'm making sure I call you out on it.
But seriously dude, it takes a lot of time to do these tests and just blatantly fucking accusing me of bias? And you're not even taking it back? Fuck you man.
Or do you at least take back your insinuations of bias? I did this test, I'm publishing this here on Lemmy. I'm proud of what I accomplished and will defend it. And your accusations of bias are not going unnoticed. You take it back before I take by my curse words or "triggered" perspective. I get you're a fanboy but you're directly insulting my work here.
Best part? I drove 100% electric last week, aside from the gasoline tests. I'm on the pro-EV side and pro-electrification side. But that's not enough for you fucking purists. I'm doing these tests so that others know how electrification works and have something closer to the honest truth. I've already bought the EV, the batteries and am working to have an electrified future.
I still think it’s weird that you’re not calculating your own gas efficiency. Toyota have a vested interest in you thinking they’re doing a great job of that. I don’t know why you’re trusting their figures for gas but you’re supremely skeptical about their figures for electricity. Why would they be so inconsistently honest with you, and why are you so inconsistently skeptical?
You fucking serious mate?
Toyota figures are confirmed by consumer reports, car and driver, motor trend. Everyone is getting 50mpg even in the cold with the Prius.
The reason I'm not doing it personally is simple: it's a 50mpg fucking vehicle. I need to drive 200miles to use 4 fucking gallons. That's a long time to do a silly internet debate.
I'm going to do that eventually. But for fucks sake man, before criticizing my tests how about you think what the fuck I need to do to make effective tests here.
I'll get a 200mi test done eventually. But not because you told me to do it. I always was planning on doing it but fuck man. You are a piece of shit for pushing this on me.
How about this. You go rent your own fucking car, spend 4 hours driving it and testing it and come back here so that I can shit on your results and tell you how you did it wrongly just because it doesn't match my biases. Sound fair?
My overall miles per gallon was 85mpg including electricity.
The 53mpg is within other tests (ex: consumer reports), and is within expectations.
Why does your car calculate your petrol efficiency but not your electrical efficiency?
On the contrary. I don't trust Toyotas EV efficiency figure of 3.2mi/kwh because I'm measuring 2.2mi/kwh from the wall.
Are YOU measuring the electrical output from the wall correctly? The cars battery has a figure but it's after the efficiency losses in the cable, heater and other such figures. My calculation includes all the losses except voltage sag in wires (1.5% estimate)
I did read about wind energy making night time costs very low for some areas of the UK. Thanks for the graph, it helps me understand it.
In my state in the USA, I have a choice between one price at all times (17c, all taxes and surcharges included) or a on-peak/off-peak pricing structure of 28c on-peak and 12c off-peak.
Not as extreme as your every 30 minutes of change but if I squint I can kinda-sorta see my price differences kinda lining up with yours.
My lows aren't as low and the highs aren't as high. They are also multiple hours long of on peak vs off peak.
Yes but there is an easy solution. Just fill up with 2 gallons, rather than 10 gallons.
Now you have the 100mi backup gasoline (why you bought a PHEV, right?), but still do EV every day. Every few months hit the HV button and burn off that fuel and fill up another 2 gallons.
That being said: Prius Prime dual mode has 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds. When both engines are on your acceleration is amazing, on both low end 0-30 EV) and high end (ICE engine covers 30-70mph).
So you want to be in auto mode (aka: use both engines mode) anyway for optimal driving experience.
And now that I know that gasoline is cheaper in the winter anyway, maybe I push that 'use both engine' button more....
If you ever need the 500mi gas tank for a long trip, just spend 5 minutes at a gas station. It's not like our gas tanks are locked behind 20+ minute chargers or whatever.
Interesting. The internet suggests 22p/kwhr is the UK average ($0.27/kwhr in US dollar)
I do have a time of use program that I could take advantage of to drop my night time / off peak prices. But my on-peak prices go up so much that even with the EV I'm not saving any money.
I'm only going to drop from like 17c to 12c if I switch to the EV time of use program, or a change of like $1.70/night worth of charging to $1.20/night (10kwhr per typical day of travel)
Do UK citizens pay generation + transmission + taxes like we do in the USA?
8p/kwhr (10c/kwhr) is very close to the time of use / night time charge generation costs of my area. However, there are still local tax, surcharges, and transmission I have to pay for that would take that up to 17c when it's all accounted for.
Of course! I plan to keep this car for around a decade, so there's plenty of opportunity next year to experiment again.
Between the heater during charge + the heater during driving (!!!), we are getting hit twice by the cold weather efficiency demons.
Wow. And you call me arrogant.
Toyota claims 48mpg. I claim 53mpg. My test has different results than Toyota's claims. The entire basis of you (and the other guy's) posts is mistaken from the beginning. And now you add bullshit numbers from unlisted sources despite two Prius owners in this topic telling you our statistics. And yet, I'm the arrogant and biased one. That's.... interesting.
Do you understand your position in this matter? I'm the one with the car. I can literally run the complete test when I want. And finally, I've shared my initial test results of 53mpg on a much smaller scale (mostly because its now 50F and I'm now unable to do cold weather tests. And the weatherman says I won't have a near-freezing day for another week or two). Furthermore, it would take a substantial amount (ie: 200 miles of driving) to get a reasonable test done... assuming we want something like ~4 gallons averaged out on the test to help mitigate any errors.
But if you don't like the initial numbers I've given you (53mpg), that's not a fault of mine or methodology or whatever. I'm simply showing you my best estimate of reality here. And since YOU admit you don't own this car, I'm not sure what the fuck you could possibly contribute to the discussion (nor the other guy for that matter).