dinkusmann @ dinkusmann @feddit.rocks

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1 yr. ago

Of course not. Animals are inferior by nature and were made to be owned by humans. It's just the natural order of things. We even have a special word for it. We call it husbandry, isn't that cute? Just like how a husband owns his wife, women being creatures that act on instincts and emotions instead of reason.

First off, I have a tendency to be an asshole in online discussions so I want you to call me out if I'm being unproductive. I also really struggle with tone so please try to interpret what I say generously. This is why I generally only discuss veganism irl. This is a throwaway account I created just because I saw some anti vegan rhetoric and my emotions got the better of me. I'm going to abandon it as soon as we're done talking. Here it goes:

As for you last point, I want you to consider things a vegan's perspective for a second. You're often forced to either package your ideas so meekly and inoffensively that they're easily ignored or express them forcefully and then be called an extremist and mocked.

We slit the throats of 90 billion land animals each year. That's billions of chickens who get theirs beaks cut off without anesthetic and get ammonia burns from living in their own shit. Billions of bulls that are branded, ear tagged, and have their testicles ripped off without anesthetic. Trillions of fish that suffocate to death or freeze to death in ice water.

And the absurdity of it all is that it's easy, cheap, and healthy to simply eat plants. Most people can wash their hands of this entirely any time they want. The idea that none of this is ethical or necessary is an idea that deserves to be presented forcefully. The idea that animals are not property to be owned and exploited is no different from the idea that human beings cannot be property of their masters or their husbands and deserves to be expressed with the same vigor. So is it really that people hate us because we're presenting our message wrong, or do people just hate us because our message is hard to hear?

I agree with most of your other points. Capitalism does force us all to be complicit in terrible things to a degree and I'm sure I absolutely could and should do more to avoid exploitative products. In fact, if you have a list of products that you avoid or a source you consult, I'd like know what it is. And if you're willing to do research on the least explorative brand of jeans, then you really should go vegan. This is an easy win and I guarantee you it's cheaper.

As for the "humans have eaten meat forever" argument. Humans have had slaves forever yet you are clearly against slavery. If you go vegan and prevent a dozen cows from being raised and killed for meat, that's worthwhile regardless of what everyone else does.

You can, and should, give money to animal charities and support politicians in favor of better animal welfare (if you can find one) and I will commend you for that. But that does not negate the harm you do by paying for animals to be killed. Just as giving to a women's shelter does not then mean that it becomes excusable for you to beat your wife.

And I apologize for that analogy, I don't think you're a bad person. But I do think it's an appropriate analogy and I think we live in a culture that normalizes and encourages normal people to participate in terrible atrocities. The reality is that you have nothing to lose from going vegan and, after a little research and preparation, it doesn't take any extra effort, time, or money.

Go vegan and you'll cut your grocery bill by up to 1/3rd. Give that money to charity. Now you're actually acting on both issues instead of resorting to meaningless whataboutisms that help neither humans nor animals.

What do you think makes the difference? They can suffer, can't they? Is it intelligence? If a disabled person has the mental capacity of a pig, are we allowed to kill and eat them?

Yeah, and those abolitionists man. Like, I get it, you don't own slaves. Can't they just shut up and lay off the slave owners?

Ok, based on your comment you're definitely going to go vegan eventually and then you're going to regret not going vegan sooner. Save yourself the anguish and just rip the band-aid off now. I promise the switch is easier and more fun than you think.

You sound like every vegan a few years before they go vegan. And then they all regret not going vegan sooner.

Trust me when I say making the switch can actually be quite fun and pretty soon you won't miss meat at all.

Going vegan can reduce your grocery bill by 30%

And we are all personally responsible for the animals we eat. Meat eating is a problem with our culture, not just a problem with capitalism, and we're all responsible for changing the culture.

Actually ingredient purist should be "tea must be made from tea leaves (Camellia sinensis)". Black and green tea both come from the same plant. There are people who will tell you that chamomile is a "herbal infusions" and not tea because it comes from a different plant.

To shreds you say? How's his mother holding up?

Every vegan initially dreams of a world with ethical meat. Then after a few years you realize you actually don't miss meat at all. Please believe me when I say, ethical meat really isn't worth the effort (and often mental gymnastics).

Of course you don't. You're told your entire life that eating animals is essential and morally permissible. You're constantly told your entire life that animal lives don't matter. Just keep an open mind. Go to watchdominion dot com.

I'd rather be an unhappy vegan than a happy meat eater.

This is emphatically untrue. If you eat a few hundred fewer animals over the course of your life, that's a few hundred animals saved (even if supply and demand aren't perfectly elastic, the expected utility is 1-to-1). The fact that billions will still die is irrelevant.

Would you refuse to save a child from poverty on the grounds that billions will continue living in poverty?