danhakimi @ danhakimi @kbin.social

Hi all. I'm Dan. You can message me on Matrix [@danhakimi](https://kbin.soc

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2 yr. ago

Is there a format in which you think these facts would be less inconvenient for you?

I'm not OP, and OP said:

Because as we know, cowardly Hamas terrorists only use civilians as shields. Hamas are scum.

I got the skinhead implication, but...

Oh! I see! I thought rafa was saying that rafa was a supporter of Ukraine and Israel, that's the logic I missed. Yeah, I'm familiar with the old trope of accusing Jews of being Nazis.

Well, ideally by the electoral process, but absolutely. I personally think the Olmert proposal would have been fantastic, but Abbas knew that Hamas would never let him get away with it.

Well no, not really, the thread is about Hamas and you are the first one to bring up Israeli terrorism.

But it's not like Jewish violence in the region predates Muslim violence. The pogroms have been going since at least the 1920s. Things escalated. Nobody is saying Hamas was the start, but Hamas is the biggest problem right now.

The quote is from a news site you've never heard of. Here she is speaking in English on CNN.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/24/hostage-hamas-released-israel-ebof-sot-vpx.cnn

The western media interviewed her in English instead of making up some bullshit translation.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/24/hostage-hamas-released-israel-ebof-sot-vpx.cnn

Hamas has never focused on military targets. Their founding charter specifically calls for the death of all Jews worldwide and forbids any conception of peace.

I'm with you on this, I feel bad for what I suspect is a majority of Gazans who fear Hamas too much to speak up against them. That's the biggest issue with OP's argument.

But Israel isn't targeting them. Israel is doing everything it can to warn them of the exact buildings it's targeting, and Hamas is doing everything it can to keep them in the warzones and in the buildings, because it wants them to die, it wants them to be "martyrs" Its leaders have made this clear in many interviews. They talk about how they have six kids in the hopes that three of them die.

War is hell. Nobody is taking this lightly. There will be civilian casualties. That's a terrible thing. Allowing Hamas to continue its control and its rampage is worse.

Allowing them to continue to oppress Palestinians, target Israeli civilians, fire rockets (more rockets have landed in Gaza than in Israel!)... They dig up water pipes to turn into rockets. They steal fuel from power plants that could be used to power hospitals and desalination plants. They set up their bases and fire rockets from schools, hospitals, mosques, and residences. They are demanding war. Their founding charter entirely rejects any kind of peace at all. It's not an accident.

how does it feel to not have anything to say in response to a well-thought-out point, but be incapable of leaving it alone, so you just have to say "boo, you're on the other side as me!" and leave a downvote.

I'm not sure I follow here....

For what it's worth, a large portion of Zionist—I'd wager a majority of those in Israel, and a very large majority elsewhere in the world—think that settlements suck and Israel needs to work much harder to stop their expansion. And Netanyahu is extremely unpopular internationally, and there's no way he'll win another election in Israel. But there's some context—on the practical level and on the political level—that might be helpful to understand why this problem persists.

First, why is Netanyahu prime minister again? His second real rise to power occurred in 2009. Back in 2005, Netanyahu advocated against Israel's unilateral withdrawal from Gaza. The Sharon government went ahead with it, but terrorism in Gaza skyrocketed as a result. So Netanyahu was seen by many as the conservative who was right all along, the only one who really wanted to keep Israelis safe from terrorists. But over time, Israelis slowly realized that his way was somehow just as shitty, and also that he was a corrupt piece of shit.

So Netanyahu was brought on criminal charges for corruption.

Israel had like 87 elections, and kept trying to form a majority coalition in its government. It kind of did a couple of times, but it fell apart fast, until Netanyahu managed to form a coalition again. Except now, his main goal was to not go to prison, so he was pretty fucking desperate. He cozied up to far-right nuts and made a really strange government. Their actions led to massive protests in Israel, and they didn't feel like negotiating with the opposition or listening to protestors. They made judicial reforms, they engaged in harsher / anti-Palestinian / super-fucking-racist policies, and made other changes to Israeli law that generally just sucked.

With regards to settlements... This is going to be a dramatically oversimplified take, and some portion of settlements are on disputed territory, but let's focus on the straight up West Bank territory... basically, the usual pattern is, Israelis building in Palestine is generally against Israeli law, but some developers do it anyway, and the government generally punishes them, but also doesn't condone bombing settlements or murdering Israeli civilians because they moved into those settlements (they usually move there because they can't afford to live in more expensive parts of Israel, or because they work in the West Bank, but sometimes because they're assholes who want to expand Israeli territory for some dumb religious reason). And basically, the far right is less interested in punishing, more interested in protecting. And there's also some licensing thing I don't really understand... And freedom of movement issues, and a whole lot of other pieces, but yeah, there are a lot of complicated factors. But some of the real nutjobs in Netanyahu's coalition are actually pro-settlement, so... that sucks.

Also, people now blame him for mistakes surrounding the attack, which... We're not going to dig into, because people are going to make it something it isn't.

people who hate trump almost as much as they hate gay people

So I did read the article. But telegram as a service allows users (some of whom are just civilians with no ties to Hamas) to warn people of imminent attack. That’s in the article. They (that channel admins) still have to add subscribers.

It's a Hamas channel! They're not warnings, they're threats! And they're recruiting! And they know those users are sharing video of their attrocities in other Hamas groups! And the al-Qassam Brigades have a public channel too!

The thing is though, for telegram and messaging apps like it this is basically playing whack a mole. I know I said that before, but what I meant by it is that it’s better for the purposes of building intelligence and or sending their geolocation data to relevant authorities. If they close one channel more will pop up. IP bans and even device bans will not stop this from happening. You can create a telegram bot in like 10 minutes.

The mole is out in the open, sticking its fingers in its ears, and laughing at us, and Durov is saying "yeah, that's a fine mole, no idea why I'd whack it." It's gaining steam! They're openly using the names of terrorist organizations and recruiting new members constantly and telegram isn't even considering a response.

But deleting certain channels will detrimentally affect the civilians caught in the cross fire.

No, it absolutely will not.

"Telegram CEO Pavel Durov wrote that he was hesitant to shut down Hamas-used channels in a post on October 13th, saying that “tackling war-related coverage is seldom obvious” and writing that Hamas had used Telegram a few days prior to warn civilians to evacuate an area before the attacked it " lt; from your article.

He referenced Ashkelon. There are zero Israelis in Ashkelon following Hamas on Telegram. Israel knows when to evacuate its citizens, and unlike Hamas, actually does so when necessary. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Hamas is threatening Israeli civilians before targeting those civilians. THE THREAT IS THE FIRST CAUSE OF THE TERROR. This is what terrorism is! They threaten violence on civilians, they do the violence they threatened, and then they celebrate it by sharing videos! They threaten, plan, and celebrate on telegram, out in the open!

It’s the same thing with scammers. Most telegram scammers are using private messages that have encryption. So you absolutely are suggesting the telegram snoop through private messages.

There's a funnel. They start on twitter, just kind of innocently saying "follow me on Telegram." Then they say "alright, this broadcast channel will tell you exactly what token to buy, and when! Do exactly that!" It's a pump and dump scheme, some people fall for it. And then the real rubes get into those 1-on-1 secret chats with the scammers where they go ahead and give out their private info.

A tech company like Telegram could, in theory follow this funnel through the unencrypted channels. It's obvious enough from the information you and I have.

These channels are all operating openly. You know they're all pump and dump scams, right? They're not in secret chats, they're huge channels with hundreds of thousands of subscribers.

So can we stop pretending that this is simply an easy fix?

Can we stop pretending that ignoring the problem is a better solution?

not in a million years. Not with FDIC insurance or open-source non-custodial crypto wallets or anything like that.

That sucks. I think it's worse when they're doing it to capitalize off violence, especially when they're taking money that dumb people assume might go towards some cause.

... they did?

you can't?

Lol, yeah, this sociopath is going to develop a full suite of banking services and software in a year while laying off employees, sure.

Did you read the article? Do you know what broadcast channels are?

https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/25/23931710/telegram-android-block-hamas-channels-google-play-guidelines-war-israel