commie @ commie @lemmy.dbzer0.com

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2 yr. ago

the vast majority of the world's soy (about 85%) is pressed for oil in an oil press for human use. the byproduct of the press is called soy meal or soy cake, and would be a waste product if we didn't find a use for it. currently, almost all of it goes to feed livestock, (about 70% of the entire crop-weight).

soybeans are used by people, and we feed the trash to livestock.

I like to give people questions to ponder and explore.

if you don't wan to construct an argument that's fine, but the socratic method isn't terribly convincing for me and many others.

Suffering of conscious beings is a negative thing.

can you support this claim?

if less meat is produced (ie less animals are raised for slaughter), then less deforestation will come as a result of the meat industry.

but just being vegan doesn't cause this to happen.

If legume farming was destroying the rainforest,

turns out, a lot of the the deforested amazon is being used to grow soy.

perhaps you could explain that subtle difference to the animals

i don't think i can, no. but propagandists can choose to stop using emotionally charged and incorrect terms.

it's not that they want to reduce plant suffering. it's that they don't care if plants suffer.

in torture, the pain is the point. while i think factory farming is too ambivalent about suffering, i also believe the suffering is only incidental, not intentional. it's not torture.

have you ever paid anyone at a factory farm? i haven't, and i don't think most people have.

if you have an argument that it is immoral, make it. i don't care for your interrogative style.

you are outright dismissing with a mere hand wave.

i am not. i have been fighting with vegans, primarily on issues of the environment, for i think 8 or 9 years now. i have heard about every argument (though i'm always excited to find a new one!), and i have not been convinced by any of them that i have a duty to be vegan.

What about the deforestation caused by animal agriculture?

that's bad. buying beans doesn't fix it though.

Is it moral for you to inflict pain and fear on a conscious being?

i suppose that depends on circumstances.

if you have evidence to the contrary, you should present it.

Person who pays for animals to be tortured

no one does that

the thumbnail looked like a tornado behind a skyscraper.

while i think you are actually starting to violate community rules here, i just wanna say i think your conduct up to this point has been fine.

Going vegan means changing your habits, giving up a lot of your treats with nothing in return. You will be the weird one at christmas that needs “special” catering, people have to choose restaurants based on your habits and you will be the butt of a lot of jokes simply because you care about animals not being enslaved. If you need people to be nice to you, and applaud you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy to keep that going you won’t last.

this should be on a billboard.

Why would that not include animals?

three separate reasons.

they aren't people. the don't participate in our society. tehy don't respect the freedoms of others.

i used a plural. it's not just one argument. you're not being very honest about the breadth of the arguments made.