chaogomu @ chaogomu @kbin.social

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2 yr. ago

Except Trump would never accept him.

You've also been spreading lies and misinformation up and down this thread.

Here, read this.

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/rust-investigators-live-rounds-alec-baldwin-1235122384/

It's how live rounds made it onto that set in the first place. Until Baldwin pulled that trigger, no one on set had known that there were any live rounds on set.

Baldwin didn't hire anyone. He was one of 10 producers, and was listed as being in charge of funding and script changes.

And yes, family connections did play a big role here, the armorer is the daughter of an armorer who has worked on hundreds of films and TV shows.

And she didn't even know the brand name Starline Brass when questioned by police.

That alone is a major red flag, because Starline Brass is the company that makes all the dummy rounds used on movie sets. They do not make live rounds, and yet, the round that Baldwin shot, was in a Starline Brass casing.

The story of that has been known for 3 years now.

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/rust-investigators-live-rounds-alec-baldwin-1235122384/

it's called a camera test.

Baldwin, the cinematographer and the director were all working through blocking (the movements needed for when the camera would be actually rolling).

The camera was in position, and the cinematographer and director were both looking through the monitors to adjust lighting and such.

This is all very standard stuff, and if one of the dummy rounds hadn't actually been a reload of live ammo, it would have remained standard.

This talks about how the live ammo made it onto the set.

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/rust-investigators-live-rounds-alec-baldwin-1235122384/

Baldwin could have looked at the logos on the bullets, seen the Starline Brass, and assumed that they were all dummy rounds. Only 5 of the 6 were.

There are a lot of people in this thread who are ignoring reality, and thinking that a movie set is a gun range.

So yeah. I'm basically saying the same thing over and over again.

The live round was loaded into a Starline Brass casing. It had the Starline Brass logo on it.

So a complete novice would look at it and the other Starline Brass logos on the dummy rounds and say, they all match, so they must be dummy rounds, just like all the other dummy rounds on set, because until Baldwin pulled that trigger, he and everyone else on set would have said that there were zero live rounds on set.

Baldwin wasn't trained to tell the difference between a live round and a dummy round. The armorer was (saposed to be) trained to do that.

As for you claiming to be able to tell at a glance, that's also a lie.

The only way to tell is to hold the round up and shake it. A dummy round has a BB in place of the powder. It will make a rattling noise when shaken.

Dummy rounds for movie sets will sometimes even come with a fake primer, because they're props and meant to look real.

The way you tell is by looking for the logo, and shaking them. That's it.

The Set was cold, i.e. there were not supposed to be any live rounds at all. Baldwin was handed his prop, and told it was a cold gun, This would have felt like a formality, only done to keep up the practice. Because there were no live rounds, and the prop was not loaded with blanks. It was loaded with dummies.

Except someone on a previous film had reloaded some dummy rounds with live ammo, and some of those rounds made it back to the prop company and were re-issued to the Rust set.

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/rust-investigators-live-rounds-alec-baldwin-1235122384/

We've known where the rounds came from for years now. This is purely political theater, because Baldwin made fun of Trump.

The set was cold.

There was no reason anyone would have expected live rounds, because live rounds are legally banned on movie sets.

Especially live rounds in Starline Brass casings, because Starline Brass doesn't make live rounds, they only make dummy rounds.

The bullet that Baldwin fired was from a Starline Brass casing, and had the logo on the end next to the primer.

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/rust-investigators-live-rounds-alec-baldwin-1235122384/

This has all been known for years. The round looked like a dummy, but was not.

It was loaded with dummy rounds, and one real round.

Can you tell the difference with a glance? No? And you expect actors to be able to tell?

He wasn't just fucking around with the gun, either, he was working with the director and cinematographer for a camera test.

The three of them were walking through the motions that would be used for the actual scene, complete with costumes and props. They were trying to get the positioning and lighting right.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand for you.

And again, he doesn't need to go through any process, because the precedent here is clear. The armorer is the person with the full responsibility for making sure that the weapons on set are safe. She was the one who loaded the gun.

If this happened in any other state, Baldwin would never have been charged. But it's New Mexico, and Baldwin made fun of Trump. The prosecutor is trying to make a name for himself by going after someone Trump hates.

Baldwin didn't hire the armorer, she got the job through family connections.

She was also incompetent. She didn't know how to test the dummy rounds to see if they were live, she didn't know the name brand on the dummy rounds.

The set was not meant to have any live ammo. It was a "cold" set.

The live ammo actually came from the prop supply company, co-mingled with dummy rounds.

The live rounds were re-loads into casings that would normally be dummy rounds, because a previous film used them to train the actors how to react to live fire from their guns.

The live rounds were then turned over to the prop company at the end of that film, and at some point became co-mingled with dummy rounds and then sent out to the Rust film location.

The armorer should have checked every dummy round. But didn't even know how to do so. The re-loads were also slightly different looking than the standard dummy round. (red paint in the logo vs blue for the dummy)

As a note, when questioned by police, the armorer didn't even know the name brand of the dummy rounds.

You're confusing the firing range for the movie set.

There are different rules, and in fact, there have been court cases saying that responsibility for the weapon being safe or not is completely on the armorer.

Baldwin was told "cold gun". That's how movie sets communicate a safe weapon. Full stop.

The great example is if an actor is supposed to throw acid on someone for a scene, do you expect the actor to check that it's actually water? Or do you expect the person who is paid to check it to make sure?

Baldwin followed industry procedure of accepting a weapon that was declared cold. It was handed to him by the Assistant Director, the person normally tasked with ensuring safety on set.

waving the gun for expressiveness

See, that's the first place your memory was wrong. Because that core part is in fact wrong.

He was rehearsing a scene with the director. Asking questions about where to stand and how to draw and aim the gun.

The real gun on set was because it would usually be loaded with blanks.

Period accurate guns didn't have smokeless powder. So the blanks would be loaded with that same powder.

You also want a real gun for closeup work. There was not supposed to be any live ammo on set, so it should have been safe.

Unfortunately, the armorer was incompetent, and the prop supplier sent dummy rounds that had been co-mingled with live rounds that were produced for a previous film.

Except he wasn't just waiving the gun around.

He's an actor, and he was practicing the movements necessary for the scene.

It's called rehearsal. It's normal.

He said bang, because that would have been the end of the scene. Man points a gun at the camera, says his lines, and then pulls the trigger.

You've seen that exact scene in dozens of films and TV shows.

There were Zionists in Israel who were actually supportive of the Nazis, both because they hated the British that much, and because they thought that if the Nazis forced the Jews out of Europe, those Jews would move to Mandatory Palestine to take up arms and exterminate the Arabs.

The Stern Gang, otherwise known as the Lehi terrorist organization (and later integrated directly into the IDF as it formed) actually used Nazi race "science" to claim that Jews were a superior race and should exterminate the Arabs who lived in the area. The Stern Gang actually tried to field troops in support of the Nazis in Europe. They tried repeatedly until 1942. The Nazis said no.

Fun fact; Netanyahu's political party formed in the 1980s, as a fusion of two other right-wing parties. The first part leader and Netanyahu's mentor was a former member of Lehi, and as prime minister gave all surviving terrorists medals "for their service in creating the State of Israel".

The other two paramilitary organizations that folded into the IDF were also full of terrorists.

Except that's not how it works at all.

Proper procedure is for the prop master and armorer to be responsible for making sure the weapon is safe. They will then hand it off to whoever, and will loudly announce "cold gun".

The gun can be handed to an assistant or the actor, if it is passed to an assistant first, when they hand it over to the actor they, too, must announce "cold gun".

This lets everyone on set know that the gun has been verified safe by the armorer.

Baldwin was handed a gun, and the person handing it over loudly announced "cold gun". He was then expected to treat it like it was not loaded, because he was loudly told.

The reason why you hire an armorer in the first place is because you don't want your actors to think they know how to handle weapons. You want positive control of every weapon on set.

That broke down on the Rust set.

The story of how that broke down on the Rust set is actually quite interesting. It was a combination of nepotism (the armorer was the daughter of a famous armorer, and got the job through her dad's connections) and the complete failure on the part of a prop company.

See, the live rounds were reloads, loaded into the exact same casings as the dummy rounds normally used. The reason the reloads were made was actually valid. A different armorer on a different film shoot made them to let the actors of that film get an idea of how the guns they were using would actually kick.

At the end of that film, the live rounds got co-mingled with the returned dummy rounds, and then those co-mingled rounds were rented out to the Rust production.

The armorer for Rust should have caught these rounds. They were not completely identical to the dummy rounds. But this was her second film, and she had never actually worked with live ammo.

When questioned by police after the shooting, she didn't even know the brand name on the dummy rounds.

Anyway, she had prepped the gun for filming, and then the assistant director took it from her cart and handed it to Baldwin, announcing "cold gun". The assistant director did not check the gun either, he just grabbed it and handed it off.

As a note, there were not supposed to be any live rounds, or even any blanks on set. Just dummy rounds.

The other failure here was actually sort of on the victims. Industry standards for filming scenes like that is to use a monitor, and not have anyone standing in the potential path of a bullet, even if there are no bullets. The cinematographer and director were both standing behind the camera. Mostly because setting up a monitor takes time, and they were under a bit of a crunch to get the scene filmed.

Except that Baldwin really didn't do anything criminal, despite what you say.

There are a lot of court cases about this out of California and Georgia. Liability for the death is squarely on the armorer.

Unfortunately, this happened in a Trump friendly state, and the prosecutor wants to make a name for themselves by sticking it to the guy who made fun of Trump.

So, you admit you're just making shit up to paint Baldwin in a worse light?

You also admit you have no fucking clue how stage and film work?

Because pointing a gun at someone for a film is allowed, because the production hires actual experts who are legally responsible for making sure that any weapon handed to an actor is safe. The armorer in this case was incompetent, and got the job because her father was a damn fine armorer and had connections.

Do note, that while Baldwin was a producer on the film, he was one of 10 producers, and never handled hiring. His main duties were fundraising and minor script changes.

For your unpopular opinion...

Read up on Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales. It's the case that said there is no duty to protect. It's also an example of why there should be a positive duty to protect in some cases.

On June 22, at approximately 5:15 pm, Simon took possession of the three girls in violation of the order. Jessica called the police at approximately 7:30 pm, 8:30 pm, and 10:10 pm on June 22, and 12:15 am on June 23, and visited the police station in person at 12:40 am on June 23. Prior to the second call, Simon had called Jessica and stated that he had the daughters with him at an amusement park in Denver, Colorado. However, since Jessica had allowed Simon, from time to time, to take the children at various hours, the police took no action. At approximately 3:20 am on June 23, Simon appeared at the Castle Rock police station and was killed in a shoot-out with the officers. A search of his vehicle revealed the dead bodies of the three daughters, who were determined to have been killed prior to arrival at the police station.

Did you miss the part a bit earlier where it said he was handed a gun and told it was cold?

The fact that he was asking questions of the director about how he was going to draw and "fire" the gun is pointless, because everyone on set thought it was cold.

According to a search warrant, the guns were briefly checked by armorer Gutierrez-Reed, before assistant director Halls took the Pietta revolver from the prop cart and handed it to Baldwin.[38][39] In a subsequent affidavit, Halls said the safety protocol regarding this firearm was such that Halls would open the loading gate of the revolver and rotate the cylinder to expose the chambers so he could inspect them himself. According to the affidavit, Halls said he did not check all cylinder chambers, but he recalled seeing three rounds in the cylinder at the time. (After the shooting, Halls said in the affidavit, Gutierrez-Reed retrieved the weapon and opened it, and Halls said that he saw four rounds which were plainly blanks, and one which could have been the remaining shell of a discharged live round.)[40] In the warrant, it is further stated that Halls announced the term "cold gun", meaning that it was empty.[38] Halls's lawyer, Lisa Torraco, later sought to assert that he did not take the gun off the cart and hand it to Baldwin as reported, but when pressed by a reporter to be clear, she refused to repeat that assertion.[41]

Um no. That's a blatant lie.

He was handed a gun, and told it was cold.

According to a search warrant, the guns were briefly checked by armorer Gutierrez-Reed, before assistant director Halls took the Pietta revolver from the prop cart and handed it to Baldwin.[38][39] In a subsequent affidavit, Halls said the safety protocol regarding this firearm was such that Halls would open the loading gate of the revolver and rotate the cylinder to expose the chambers so he could inspect them himself. According to the affidavit, Halls said he did not check all cylinder chambers, but he recalled seeing three rounds in the cylinder at the time. (After the shooting, Halls said in the affidavit, Gutierrez-Reed retrieved the weapon and opened it, and Halls said that he saw four rounds which were plainly blanks, and one which could have been the remaining shell of a discharged live round.)[40] In the warrant, it is further stated that Halls announced the term "cold gun", meaning that it was empty.[38] Halls's lawyer, Lisa Torraco, later sought to assert that he did not take the gun off the cart and hand it to Baldwin as reported, but when pressed by a reporter to be clear, she refused to repeat that assertion.[41]

People attacking him just make shit up left and right.