I like how they don't like genocide so in protest, they vote for the other party that "likes genocide" (and is actively hostile to minorities, but whatever).
In this case the tradeoff they have to accept is...voting for a party that does the same thing but even more overt.
I'm not belittling anyone, I'm simply stating that facts of the situation - regardless of which party they vote for - they will be effectively choosing to accept genocide, whether their vote is a protest vote or not, because that's how the 2-party system works.
We get them back by reminding them of exactly what has been done for them and the realities of the alternative, as well as opening a dialog on what reasonable concessions can be made (if any). If that doesn't work, then clearly, there was no way of turning them, and they should be cut loose.
As for optimism, it's really more of simply extrapolating trends in the culture of younger generations and the realities of more workers than at least the last 40 years realizing they are being screwed and striking. Clearly, something is changing as people realize the system is a scam
You're missing the point: Is it bullshit they get to get away with being Republican-lite? Yes.
Is it something that we can change right this second? No.
It boils down to the same annoying reality of our situation being accepting tradeoffs because there is literally no alternative that is feasibly going to happen.
I can agree that it is bullshit they get to continue with what they are doing, but in practical terms they too are needed. The seat Manchin controls is solidly Republican, and as we've seen the caliber of person the Republicans are putting forward are completely opposed to even the remotest concession. It sucks, but having someone with a (D) next to their name who has to worry about biting the hand that feeds them is marginally better than someone with an (R). However, given as he is about to be gone, catering to him isn't gonna be a thing much longer, hopefully.
I'm explicitly talking about this scenario: American Muslims are overplaying their hand to the detriment of the rest of the bloc. What they want is utterly unattainable in such a short term, and the only counter they are attempting is threatening to vote for Trump as though it is some sort of solution. Sure, demanding a ceasefire and stopping Islamaphobia at home is a great long-term goal, but it is ludicrous to see their demands as valid when they are essentially saying "if you don't stop Islamaphobia I'm gonna be the Islamaphobes in power."
As for hurling abuse at them, I don't think any Democrat official has done anything of the sort, whereas the party they are turning to does constantly.
And when it comes to courting Republicans...they have to play nice or risk the government ceasing to function. At the same time, given current trends the Democratic party will shift more to the left because more and more young people are going to force their hand within the next decade or so as the Boomers are (thankfully) culled.
When they didn't successfully do all the horrible shit they wanted to do under Trump. When they failed to coup the US Government on Jan. 6. The fact that a nationwide abortion ban isn't in effect and Muslims are allowed to enter the country.
Bitch and cry all you want about "wahhh it's just accepting Fascism more slowly with the Dems." Go look at how the government actually votes on issues and see how much shit is stopped by the Dems, and how much actually positive legislation for people does get passed exclusively because of the Democrats.
I hate having to defend them, but I have to accept the reality that without them my life would be objectively worse.
All you've done is throw out supposed "gotcha" statements and added nothing to conversation. It makes me embarassed to fundamentally agree with you on things.
It's literally dipshits like you that undermine the cause of the left: head to far up your own ass to accept anything less than everything being what you want. Learn the reality of the situation before crying about how the dems did something that isn't what you think is best and turn your energy to actually achievable results
Like are you dense or just being intentionally dishonest? I'm not saying it is a problem the Muslims have free will: I'm saying the problem is that they are free to do what they wish, but their actions will have consequences for them that are likely to not be worth it, so they need to accept tradeoffs like everybody else.
And then you don't bother actually responding to my arguments. Maybe try that next time in order to get meaningful responses.
You're probably not wrong. It's an impossibly difficult problem to determine exactly what every voter wants.
Then of course we have to wonder all the non-public things that are keeping the US tied to Israel...would make it a lot easier to understand why things are happening as they are.
See, the problem here is that the Muslims can do whatever they want in this scenario, but the bottom line is that they have to accept the same shit as everyone else.
If I'm being honest, this whole stunt just looks like trying to force the democratic party into doing what they want at the expense of other, more numerous voters.
For example, I have to accept that Biden isn't going to do everything I want like go hard after the wealthy or force through student loan forgiveness. However, him being in power means my LGBT friends and family, as well as any female relatives and friends have protection for their rights and bodily autonomy.
It's not a great choice to have to make because our system sucks, but I have to make that call because Republicans will absolutely make things worse. In the cold, calculating world of politics, if I had to choose between my friends and family having rights or Palestinians not being killed...I'd pick my friends and family 10/10 times. Of course I'd rather have both, but that's the reality of the situation.
Then of course there's the whole question of why those Muslim people are in America (yes, I'm aware of how dangerously close this line of thinking gets to dipshit conservatives bitching about immigrants). Is making their current home demonstrably worse for them really a good idea?
I think its more that they kinda can't win. Trapped in the inertia of past governments propping up Israel...backing out of support fully is never going to happen. Best they can do is try to lean on Israel to ceasefire. Then of course there's the consideration for Jewish voters who support Israel, which iirc is a larger voting bloc than American Muslims.
Of course it is also amusing that Muslims are seemingly okay with getting Trump in, the guy who intentionally inflamed tensions in the Middle East.
Then of course there's also the danger of turning Dems against Muslims because of the perceived betrayal...which honestly I'd care a lot less about what happens to Muslims in America if they get Trump in.
Essentially, this is sorta like trying to create a hostage situation with a pistol at your own head.
Welcome the opportunity to torture another human being
Nobody is torturing him (well, except maybe the people who are continuing to prop him up for political gain). It's the greatest justice there is: nobody is doing anything and he's still suffering.
I dont need to do a damn thing. I simply need to do nothing and watch as a person who has active contempt for those worse off than him gets a small taste of what his actions have put thousands of people through. Just as I dont feel bad Hitler blew his brains out or Stalin died of a stroke and couldn't be saved because of his paranoid doctors, I don't give a damn about someone who has actively caused direct harm to thousands of innocent people.
As a younger person in IT, I always hate this argument of "they could never use the old stuff." It's such a dumb thing to use because it can logically be taken anywhere: "these damned boomers couldn't even crank up their car properly" or "I can't believe kids these days don't listen to the town crier and read newspapers instead!" It's just absurd: nobody uses those systems because we found better* options to achieve the same tasks, making knowledge of these things largely irrelevant.
I'd take Norman Schwarzkopf over Napoleon Bonaparte to command any modern military force today as their skills are for entirely different realities.
Ah...the same old brain dead argument. Right wingers always hide behind "muh free speech" and the like, but fail to mention how their policies actively attempt to strip the rights of others to be free.
In a space that respects free speech, you fundamentally cannot have a party that wishes to restrict free speech for others, as that defeats the point of free speech. Or rather, the concept of "absolute free speech" is utter nonsense on the face of it, as there will always be restrictions on what is and isn't okay to talk about in any human group.
One could easily argue that putting these people into their own little cesshole communities is giving them free speech in their own shitty space. And of course, if you don't like it you are free to leave for their space or simply shut up and play nice with the other kids in the instances you frequent - thats the beauty of the fediverse.
I like how they don't like genocide so in protest, they vote for the other party that "likes genocide" (and is actively hostile to minorities, but whatever).
In this case the tradeoff they have to accept is...voting for a party that does the same thing but even more overt.
I'm not belittling anyone, I'm simply stating that facts of the situation - regardless of which party they vote for - they will be effectively choosing to accept genocide, whether their vote is a protest vote or not, because that's how the 2-party system works.