blue_berry @ blue_berry @lemmy.world

Coder, Artist, Blogger (https://fungiverse.wordpress.com/, https://philpape

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Joined

2 yr. ago

The explore-feed here is simply to put a probablity on local and all-posts. So its a feed that randomly picks post from local or all. Let's say you get three out of four posts from all federated instances and one from your local instance. This would direct user engagment to the threadiverse but not drain an instances user engagement all together (especially for smaller instances).

Here are the updated versions.

This one is if you look at one moment in time:

This one includes future development of the Threadiverse and the consequence of the action for that:

The second one isn't prioners dilemma but battle of the sexes (yeah really dump name). I removed the All-Feed option, because for smaller instances it has really no merit to promote it (why should you promote a feed, in which your instances is effectively never present and therefore just drains away your user engagement to other instances?).

As @recursive_recursion@programming.dev suggested, this would resemble the infinite prisoner’s dilemma and models the overall situation better.

Oh, shit, I actually got the numbers wrong. For the prisoners dilemma, it should be (-1, -1) in the bottom-right corner

Interesting. And what would that mean for the problem at hand?

Maybe like that: Moderators would need to know that there is some consequence to protect their instance. For example, because then other instances would defederate or because users would join other, more open instances. That would be my suggestion for some kind of social pressure.

That also the case for me, but for smaller instances, they will never see their posts in the federated feed, therefore, they will only advertise their local feed. It would be cool to have an explore feed, in which you have both

I like that idea

Interesting, I hadn't thought about the ethical and data protection issues for this problem before.

Could linking of communities solve it? You close a community, open it on another instance and link the two?

That's true. I'm not sure it would be a good feature, because you would inevitable only see a certain view of the instance. For example your instances blocks certain communities of that instance (don't know if thats possible but lets assume it is), then you wouldn't see these communities.

I'm fine with the way it is. Also you can post to that topic, you just need to search for it in your instances UI.

I'm all in for federation. Thats what I'm actually trying to improve

Where am I critical of the underlying software?

That would also be fine.

Edit: an explore-feed would still be nice though ...

The ”global town-square”

I don't want that. I stand with the idea of federation. You would have that with one big instance on which everything happens but I'm not for that.

But if instances only push their users toward their own content, user engagment will center around instances. There are many problems to that, which negatively impact discussion quality: small instances don't work because no one sees their stuff, therefore they eventually shut down. Also, filter bubbles develop, users don't see content from other instances, which they might be interested in and comment on. So yes, I think a better distribution over the federated instances of an instance is healthy for the threadiverse.

Highly disagree, if an instance is controlling the experience of a user, then that’s a problem.

But that's so in any case. I'm speaking about which feed the user is pushed towards, which is currently the local feed.

But is that technically possible? I imagine it would be pretty tough migrating all that data ...

I check remote instances and my posts never federate anywhere. If you look at my profile from your instance, lemmy.world, it would seem I barely have any posts, but on my home one I have quite a few.

Mmh, true, I shows only two posts for me. Thats weird ... something similar happened to me with Mastodon, posts never reaching other instances or only very late ...

This is just one example of course, but from my perspective, the major issues we have right now are technical ones, and I’d like to see those fixed before trying to focus on social ones.

Yeah, thats definitly so. But I think these technical ones are mostly known and I don't feel like I can contribute much to them ... so I think about the social ones.

I get posts from other communities in my home feed

No, they are on different instances.

If you promote the local feed, your posts get attention, which means user engagement. So, user engagement would have a trend to stay in its own instance, which results in bubbles and is certainly not good for discussion quality.

Subscribed feed is great, I have nothing against that. I also don't have anything against the other two. I just think there should be another one.

Can you please explain what that means for non-mastodon users. As far as I know about lemmy, which granted isn’t much, local posts are not hidden from all, meaning it already is a consolidated local and all feed.

Right, but you are on lemmy.world I presume, which is the biggest Lemmy instance. Their posts get much attention that's why they also appear in your all-feed. But let's say you are on a very small Lemmy instance with only two communities. These posts will almost never appear in your All-feed, which is why the admin will prevarably put the local-feed as default, which makes total sense to me, but is not ideal for the overall network.

On mastodon, you have an explore-feed, on which you have popular posts from federated instances and your local ones (I at least think that it works that way).

Its not like I want to force them. It's just criticism. If they are part of a federated network, they also get some merits out of it (user engagement) and so they should give something back in return. This will become more pressing if Threads joins the Fediverse. It could flood the fediverse with its own posts while putting the posts of their network front and center in their UI eventually draining the Fediverse off its energy (which of course we could prevent by defederating in the worst case ...)