archomrade [he/him] @ archomrade @midwest.social

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1,615

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2 yr. ago

There’s no reality in which the U.S. was going to seriously jeopardize its relationship with our closest ally in the middle east

Maybe you just suffer from a lack of imagination - and anyway what good is having allies if they're on the genocidal side of things? Seems like maybe we're the baddies.

Because they showed up to this campaign with receipts of their accomplishments and focused on talking policy and avoiding blatant propaganda and it clearly didn’t work.

Lmao, is that what they did?

Hell, they should have just lied that they’d break ties with Israel so they could win.

If you're gonna emulate what the republicans are doing, why not say 'fuck the parliamentarian' and just plow through actual, substantial reforms? Why pick the deception part and not the complete disregard for the rules in service of achieving your agenda part?

Because they didn’t cut ties with Israel?

Because - far from 'cutting ties' with Israel - they actively shielded them from international accountability and continued supplying them with the bombs they were (and are still) dropping on Palestinian children

It is okay to be wrong

That's a healthy attitude, good job

The majority of the fault is squarely on voters, not Democrats. Because they didn’t fucking inform themselves responsibly.

A little less than half of all eligible voters don't vote in any given federal election - multiple factors more than the margin of every race; can we blame those people for every atrocity conducted on our behalf, too?

The outcome of every election since our founding was determined by how many people the candidates can get to turn out for them -that didn't suddenly change this time. Democrats chose to spend their efforts trying to disabuse their constituents of their moral objections and deny any real domestic reform, and they lost because of it.

Lenin actually described this pattern, theorizing that "fascism is capitalism in decay."

There are a lot of marxists of a variety of bents who have their own theories on how to achieve a socialist state, but most of them guess that an advanced capitalist state has very little likelihood of transitioning without a revolutionary vanguard or violent class conflict.

It's a reason why socialist projects almost exclusively appear in pre-industrial parts of the world - but a classless communist state is only really achievable in more advanced post-industrial societies because they'd actually have the infrastructure to get to post-scarcity. So what ends up happening usually is either a protracted socialist "dictatorship of the proletariat", or a social democratic state that is slowly undermined by austerity until it returns to a more conventional capitalist organization.

All that to say: no, I do not think the US even meets the bare minimum of class consciousness required to avoid a fascistic collapse. The only good news is that, historically, fascist movements tend to burn out fairly quickly unless they have a competent leader. So, there's that.

Read the parent comment before spamming my inbox, maybe.

OP was claiming Muslim voters withheld their vote for Harris because she was a woman, despite most of them having voted for Stein (a woman)

Congratulations on helping trump win.

If all it took for trump to win was a handful of internet weirdos to loudly oppose an active genocide then maybe the democrats were never going to win in the first place.

Biden tells Netanyahu it's time to end Gaza war

This one is kinda funny to me because people interpret trump saying nearly the same words is evidence of his genocidal intent.

But none of those 'statements of disapproval' conveys the severity of their literal fucking war crimes and genocide, which would be a minimum (I would think) to convince a skeptical zionist voter that maybe some intervention is justified. Not to mention that Harris repeatedly refused to commit to withholding lethal aid every time she was asked during her candidacy.

You seem to think the election was more about punishing Biden for Gaza than preventing trump from destroying America.

No, I don't. Elections allow citizens to participate in deciding their representation, and those candidates campaign for votes by convincing normal people that you will represent their interests.

I shouldn't have to cite the history of how that started for you to understand that's just how it's always worked, and if there was ever an implicit intent for every single person to vote in every election they would have (at least) made election days a holiday (since most polling places were a half-day's trip from land-owning patriarchs at the beginning).

This a-historical fantasy of elections being objective measures of the totality of a voting population's will is an absurd caricature of our democracy, and it's only purpose seems to be to shift the responsibility of candidates to advocate for their qualifications and onto voters, who are not obligated to make that choice when the candidate themselves has abdicated their own responsibility to justify their candidacy.

Gaza will be gone because democrats decided their relationship with a fascist ethnostate was more important than stopping a fascist from taking the executive office, and even your and my vote for Genocide Lite was made into a meaningless sacrifice because of it.

Certain non-voters attitude became [...] "I’m just not voting"

Ok, now apply that criticism to those who (hypothetically) wouldn't have voted if Biden had stopped supplying military aid to Israel.

The Democrats created that block of voters by repeatedly lying about their knowledge of Israel's war crimes. Not only could they have done the right thing by withholding their offensive aid from Israel, they could have also not lied about it.

Democrats tried obscuring the scale of devastation in gaza with their own involvement, and then lost because they got caught and then doubled down. You can't treat your constituents with that much contempt and expect not to lose those voters, and then post-rationalize the lie by claiming that they would have lost more voters had they been honest and intervened.

They could have defended the lives of Palestinians and acknowledged that the genocide was happening.

It was Biden's press secretary and SOS who got up on a podium everyday and assured the press and those "other voters" that Israel wasn't doing anything wrong. They drew that line themselves, not anyone who was protesting the genocide.

I find arguments that the non-voters shouldn’t be blamed [...] idiotic

Please elaborate what the party leadership could’ve done differently to not alienate the other voting blocks

These two sentences are in contradiction

Here, see if you can spot the double standard:

"The [voters] suck… You know who else sucks? [the DNC] who didn’t stand up against [Israel]. Those people are grown ass adults who actively helped a fascist by doing nothing but bitch."

I swear your short-sighted goal of overthrowing the system has resulted in millions of Americans marching goose step and lining trans children up for the slaughter.

Those kids had already been placed in that line by the system you're defending - half the states in the union had already been targeting them while democrats were at the helm, and now the democrats have the audacity to be blaming their loss on being too trans-friendly.

it was voters who ultimately put them in office

Guess I'll just repeat myself:

"they still need millions of people to go to the booth and make that choice, and nobody has more control over voter enthusiasm than the democrats themselves"

If you want to play games with abstracting agency away from the people who had control of the entire situation, go nuts. But not only did the democrats have every opportunity to make the case for themselves, but they also dug the grave they're now laying in by building their platform around AIPAC money (and large corporate donors) to begin with.

The democrats simply cannot win with the political machine they've constructed anymore.

ah, ok that is interesting, thanks!

She was in Michigan, which is where Dearborn is

enabling the greater evil is a failing of the people who voted against their interests

Democrats enabled the greater evil by ignoring the interests of the constituencies they needed to win. It doesn't matter if the lesser evil is objectively the right choice - they still need millions of people to go to the booth and make that choice, and nobody has more control over voter enthusiasm than the democrats themselves.

This is nobody's fault but the democrats.

I'm not accusing anyone of being pro-dems, I'm pointing out that this line of reporting is intentionally misdirecting anger at voters - who can literally only react to the policies and governance of the democrats as they are - instead of the democrats sabotaging themselves for thinking they could have their cake and eat it too.

Thinking that the democrats could participate in a highly-publicized genocide and not lose any voters is folly, but then turning around blaming the voters for the loss of votes is beyond hubris and well into delusion. Anyone with eyes could see this loss coming from a mile away and was screaming at the democrats to change course.

I'm not assuming you're pro-dems, I'm pointing out that their loss is entirely attributable to their own political mis-calculation on top of their efforts to gaslight Americans about their roll and knowledge of the crimes being committed on their behalf.

Blaming voters for reacting to the Democrats' policy decisions - including the moderates they alienated - is simply yet another attempt to obscure the facts that lead us to this moment.