aidan @ aidan @lemmy.world

Posts

21

Comments

1,970

Joined

2 yr. ago

Moderating

---

I can’t imagine compromising on my beliefs simply for… what… entertainment??

Where did I compromise on my beliefs?

“Oh, well, he’d like to kill all the non-whites, but he told a good joke one time.”

Seriously, you must have a severely broken moral compass to think like this.

I mean did you see what I said about literally explicitly being okay with being friends with a murderer. If you're actually curious about why I think like that: I think people are much more multifaceted than most people give credit for. They're molded by their environment, habits they fall into. I think behaviors and beliefs are closer to habits, or sometimes addictions, to ways of thinking than they are fixed elements of a "personality" or "identity". I think there are probably many killers who were genuinely sweet, and kind, and caring, to their friends and family- and when they're like that, that's just as much them as when they're doing genuinely evil things. I can see the human while also not enabling the evil.

But even putting all that aside, I can’t imagine a Nazi ever being “fun to talk to”. Fun for them is beating up ethnic minorities. Jokes to them are bullying those who are different.

Yea I agree their sense of humor is often really bad. "N-word == funny" type stuff. But there might be some some actually funny ones. Also the worst thing is how they always want to bring everything back to the jews. Like I can think a movie is bad without wanting to hear a 10 minute rant about how the jews control Hollywood.

And you’d just happily nod along to their racist statements about ethnic minorities?

Where did I say that?

That's not enabling them

your neighbours who judge you for who you talk with, instead of for what you say.

I mean that's their choice.

I do argue with Nazis. Why do you continue to let them exist.

That’s you trying to deflect.

That's me saying you have a different definition to accept from me. I consider accepting a belief to be believing the belief is acceptable and sane. I do not accept nazism.

Totally agree. But I think depending on the type of speeding you do can make you a bad person.

Then you accept the beliefs of Nazis by your definition. After all, you haven't killed any yet.

You’re a fucking Nazi, just not the kind you’re thinking of. You’re the everyday Nazi, who sat there in Germany and shrugged as people were starved and beaten and gassed.

No I'm not. That's a lie and you know that's a lie. You know that's a lie because I'm saying exactly what I say despite knowing most people will disagree with it. Especially most Nazis. And especially because I'm not hiding behind anonymity while I do it. Those people were people unwilling to standard for their beliefs. Unwilling to disagree with authority or the majority. I've proven I am not that. But even when I'm right this is pointless, because as Noam Chomsky said:

"There's no way of responding. If somebody calls you an anti-Semite, what can you say? "I'm not an anti-Semite"? If somebody says, "You're a racist, you're a nazi", you always lose. I mean, the person who throws the mud always wins, because there's no way of responding."

they’re not, a person’s views inform the way they act.

Yep, exactly. And that's exactly thing. And when they act is when I act.

is the gas chambers, it’s the people making lists of of other people for Nazis to kill, it’s the public beatings and total lack of freedom and justice for all.

And those are all actions that I will fight against. Being a Nazi it of itself is not an action, and doesn't necessitate those actions. I already talked about actions, you just ignored that paragraph other than the first two sentences.

Why? It accurately describes what society is.

Because a contract is a real thing in which explicitly defined parties of adults voluntarily consent to explicitly defined terms. The "social contract" is none of those things.

So that you aren’t around a Nazi, dude. Normal people don’t want to be around Nazis.

I don't want to be around a Nazi, but I also won't inherently be against it. I'd rather be friends with a Nazi who's fun to talk to over a sane person who is boring to talk to. That in no way is an endorsement of their beliefs, and to believe it is the same kind of perversion of tolerance that they usually believe in.

Their beliefs are abhorrent. “Abhorrent” means “So horrible I cannot stand even the thought of it”. From everything you’ve been saying though, you don’t find their beliefs abhorrent, just uncomfortable.

Were they to be enacted they absolutely are.

I really hope you think it through more deeply, because I don’t know why your opinion on mass murder in cold blood is “yeah but if I can get something in return then it’s cool”.

Where did I say that?

That’s what “work with” these people means. You have to compromise at some point to work with people, and Nazis won’t compromise on the mass murder, so that means you’ll have to.

I really don't know what you mean by "work with". You were the one who brought it up. The discussion was about eating dinner with a Nazi. So when you first said it I thought you literally meant like a coworker who's a Nazi. If you mean working with a Nazi to advance Nazi goals, that's a very different thing. And of course I wouldn't do that- but its not what the discussion is about.

I guess to put it in an easy to digest sentence: Believing Nazi things is what makes someone a Nazi.

Yes this is something we agree on.

But we cannot allow “eh” to be the response to “those people who have done nothing wrong should die”.

The response isn't "eh". The response is disagreement. The response is also that its not my right or duty to police their beliefs. When they start manifesting the harm they believe in is when you should act. I can be friends with a murderer, who believes in, supports, and commits murder. I won't enable them to murder. In fact I will disenable them. And I would kill them before allowing them to murder. That doesn't stop me from associating with them outside of that.

The social contract has rules that say we can’t kill each other. Nazism does not respect that, so adherents of Nazism do not respect that, so they do not adhere to the social contract, thus they are not covered by it.

I absolutely hate the term social contract. But yes I agree killing people is very bad. And I think its good to kill someone to stop them killing others. But I also think that saying you want to kill others and believe in an ideology that advocate it is very different from acting on it. Most people support killing people that I don't support killing. Like I don't want to speak for you, but you seem to support killing someone I don't support killing. But given that you're on here you haven't acted on it.

No you're not. That's just fundamentally untrue. You're accepting their beliefs if you repeat after them.

How many of you have criminals as friends? None. You know why? Because they’ll lie and steal from you just as fast as anyone else - that’s why.

I know you're making a political point, but tbh, I thought Lemmy would have a better take on criminal justice

These things are not comparable. This person you spoke to has urges, not beliefs.

Political beliefs do not exist in a vacuum. Imo they always come from emotion and urges to some extent. Even the most reasoned utilitarian views- and especially Nazism.

He clearly doesn’t believe it’s right to want to fuck kids.

Alarmingly I don't really know. Or if they just say that.

Nazism is a personal political view, and that view includes the belief that I don’t have the right to exist. That the people I love don’t have a right to exist.

Yes the view is wrong and bad. No one here is arguing with that.

and you have to accede it as reasonable to work with someone who believes it.

No you do not.

I’m sick and tired of people pretending like a Nazi will just up and abandon the monstrous core principles of their entire platform.

Many won't. I guess the core of the disagreement is really "you have to accede it as reasonable to work with someone who believes it." which I don't agree with at all. Everyone I interact with and care about has beliefs I consider unreasonable and unethical to some extent, most not to the degree of Nazis- but some approaching it.

Yeah, it was also clearly political before, like Ukraine's win tbh

I care about the working class kid that isn't gonna graduate.

There's a near zero amount of working class kids studying abroad at Harvard

You're definitely earning more than me, but I'm also a freelancer. So much of at least Czech and Polish tax code is set up to make it far more expensive to run a small business or be self employed, than to work for a company

You definitely have. Whenever people meet me they feel the need to tell me which American politicians they support for some reason. And a non-zero percent of them in essentially every country like Trump. And of Chinese people I've met it's 100% for some reason lol

Yea it's my favorite type of pizza

Democracy is essentially always incompatible with a free society in the first place. Eating dinner with a Nazi isn't helping Nazis seize power. You've probably met genuine sociopaths, people who want to kill or severely harm others. Should you pre-judge them? Is that actually useful for anything?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q5DoYyV5RU

I know someone online who privately admitted to me to being a pedophile, and is very suicidal. They claim to have never victimized anyone, just thought about it. It makes me very uncomfortable. But I also think if I bluntly said that it would make them more self-destructive, feeling more isolated, and feeling more like they shouldn't be honest. I think that would lead to them being more likely to victimize someone. This isn't just a utilitarian calculus though, I genuinely do not want them to suffer. Even though they have disgusting thoughts that could manifest in the suffering of others. What would you do?

What is the point of leaving the table?

Chicago definitely for a fact is known for "Chicago Deep Dish Pizza". Its not called "Chicago Pizza" because Chicago has a lot of style pizzas, and another famous style named after it. Chicago thin crust/tavern style.