abraxas @ abraxas @lemmy.ml

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2 yr. ago

Annnnnd you just went full PETA on me.

I'm a huge animal lover, and have spent most of my life around literal nature worshippers. And I can't think of one who could pull that "Dogs are objects in our society" PETA rhetoric with a straight face.

Like someone else said, it’s incredible, you got proven wrong to your face, in public, and didn’t even blink

By bringing up something that isn't deportation? Ya'll are willing to lie together. But as someone else JUST reminded me, you don't care about my vote. We socdems are going up against the wall with everyone else.

Then why all the lies and standing by them?

But no. I've been reminded hundreds of times that you intend to bring communism by putting guns to the heads of the majority of your fellow proles like myself who don't want what you do. I know I'm going up against the wall, along with over 90% of my country, if you ever win.

But that's why I know you won't win. You can't execute 400M people, and you can't turn their hearts by threatening to.

Dude, I was commenting on specific fabrications someone was spreading, and out came all the responders to tell me how ignorant I am because I disagree with them. I'm not a liberal who writes off communists. Neither "a liberal" nor "write off communist".

Do you believe it is possible for a person to be a communist and also spread something that is not 100% honest truth? Do you all take the Three Oaths?

Sorry, but no. Nice comic, if only it were accurate. You drew yourself with a chad face, so I lose.

Look, nothing personal, but you can still treat someone like shit just because other people treat you like shit.

Fair enough. I wasn't trying to pass explicit judgement. His reputation is just a lot better now than it used to be, whether earned or not.

Oh absolutely. I totally agree, but I've seen/heard of situations where talking about illegal activity has been targetted by authorities as "empowering" or "enciting" it. Silly shit, though the authorities haven't gone full nuclear on piracy like they did 20 years ago.

When I was a teenager, a bunch of my friends online were tossing that around. I found a trojan and started sending it around as cupholder.exe but making it look like I wasn't the one who sent it... and just immediately logged in and opened their CD tray. Then started fucking with their system in silly ways.

Ahh the good old days when even malware wasn't that bad. Or maybe I was just a really stupid kid. At least I password-locked the trojan and removed it when I left.

While that's true, it's ineffective as a defense.

First, the fact other shelters are willing to overpop to take animals in need and are generally not overpopulated right now. Intake counts have been stagnant and predictable year over year. Shelter and adopter supply exists to match the demand and PETA isn't just getting animals every other shelter is denying.

Second, for their operational costs. If they can't run a shelter, then they shouldn't run the shelter. Period. The shelters I know run on a shoestring budget and manage well enough. Perhaps if PETA were primarily a shelter and not primarily an activist organization, fewer animals would have to die.

Look at PETA's expenses. They bring in $82MM, and spend less than $23MM of it on "Research, Investigations, and Rescue" combined. You're right, the operational costs are too high, and they don't want to cut into their $33+16=$49MM investment in advocacy.

Many people involved in animal rescue rightly criticize PETA for fighting for "animal rights" at the expense of the actual animals. That is why.

Animals are not ours to experiment on, eat, wear, use for entertainment, or abuse in any way. Explore this section to learn more about the issues. - PETA's titular stance on the issues

That is NOT the value statement of an ethical shelter. That is the problem. They even think of having pets as a necessary evil in many ways.

Not sure why I'm stupid enough to reply.

WRT police, the budgeting is not unprecedented. I, too, support defunding police, but as far as all the metrics I've seen, nothing about Biden's budget effect on police funding is out of the ordinary.

WRT the Union stuff, it's complicated. He used a law meant to protect the country for the way it was indended, and empowered 8 of 12 unions to sign a deal they agreed to. There has never been any evidence of overt or covert threat of actually arresting members of the other 4 unions if they did strike. You might disagree with that, but it was a bold faced lie to say he "(sic) striped one of the largest unions in the country of its right to strike, something Republicans haven’t managed to do since the Traffic Controller firings in the 80s"

You get to decide whether someone on your side lying is better or worse than someone who is merely far-left non-communist calling bullshit what it is. There is exactly one way to guarantee never having my vote, and it's lying.

AKS is not just about pedigree dogs. Having personal involvement with the AKC rescue network, I don't really care what the BBC might have said about them when the topic is PETA. AKC is ethically better positioned than PETA wrt rescue animals, full stop.

Also, I don't see why I should. You listed 100 good things PETA did. I can probably pick my worst enemy and find a list of good things they did.

And this circlejerk is why I block hexbear on the apps I have that allow me to. There is no point in continuing conversation at this point. I'm less than human to you and yours.

I noticed, and replied. Thank you

WHY are you finishing like this with a rant you started with me pointing to the experiences of people who run rescues? You sound like a talking head. No, ALL of the criticism of PETA I read on reddit come from individuals who hate PETA for their own valid reasons.

None of this is good retort to the valid criticisms, and it is disingenuous to pretend it's all "big meat" doing it.

Literally everyone I know involved deeply enough in animal rights despises PETA the same way every Muslim I know hates Al Quaida. They hate them for what they stand for, and even more hate them for the reputation they give.

In the United States, we refer to anyone in the Democratic party as "liberals". Many people refer to Bernie Sanders as "liberal". It's kinda dumb, but easy to get caught in when you live in it.

Biden doubled Trump’s deportation numbers

2021 was the lowest deportation year on record (owing to COVID). 2022 was the second lowest deportation year in modern record.

Biden moved to prioritize ICE focusing on criminal immigrants, and the Texas Republicans blocked that behavior in the courts, a block that only failed in June of 2023 when SCOTUS gave the only reasonable result (a phrase I can't say very often anymore).

So 2 years of record low deportations and 1 year of his hands tied in the courts (of which I can't find numbers anyway). How exactly is he "doubling" Trump's deportation numbers?

What you MIGHT have misunderstood is that the number of border crossings have gone up dramatically under Biden, likely because he's against the draconian and horrific policies of his predecessor. More border crossings than ever. Fewer deportations than ever. Whatever your opinion is of that, your claim was wrong.

And I'm pretty sure it would be turn into a shitfest if I tried to discuss the rest of the issues because I know you see them with Marx colored glasses. But you're making some factually incorrect statements and it can't be more clear than the deportation numbers. And more refs.

https://www.axios.com/2022/03/11/ice-arrest-deportation-number-biden-immigration

https://www.cato.org/blog/biden-administration-has-reduced-deportations-more-trump-administration-not-much-0 (I love the "not by much" when they show a graph depicting an 80% drop! I love propaganda mags)

It's also as often false as it is true. There is still such a massive demand for rescue dogs that people will pay a premium for them. There are foster households that are far from overfull. There are high-risk dog ranches that have room for more aggressive dogs, even human aggressive dogs.

Yes, there are times where you just cannot logicially find a match for a rescue. But there are also times where they put down a pet just miles away from someone who would foster or adopt them.

Unwanted animal euthanization rate in the US is arguably at an all-time low. And yet, PETA's euthanization rate is still high, high enough that groups like the AKC are openly criticizing them for it.

What about the other side of the coin. People who run shelters and rescues who have their own (from experience) criticisms about PETA? I remember a friend of mine who ran a rescue and had to arrange night transportation for a tentatively homed animal because the PETA shelter was going to euthanize in the morning. She was fucking pissed at them. Oh, and they wouldn't stay open late for her to pick the dog up, and they wouldn't let her pick the dog up first thing in the morning when they opened.

In fact, I've had the opportunity to know a lot of people involved in volunteering/running shelters, and they are as disgusted at PETA as apparently the meat industry is. Accusations of laziness, disinterest in the well-being of individual animals, etc. I remember one of the people dealing with them tell me "I think they'd euthenize a cow to prevent me from buying a bottle of its milk".

Also, to point to the Chihuahua story (since I care about this one). Nobody who claims to care about animal welfare should be euthanizing animals on pickup because they were asked to by someone that isn't their owner. My fucking VET won't even euthanize a healthy dog, and will insist on rehoming it if the owner wants to get rid of it. As someone who has helped pick up stray animals to transport to a shelter, the disposition of the person requesting the pickup is always ignored. No, we will not put down that cat who had kittens in your wall. But we will take it away.

EDIT: Also, what about the AKC? People forget that it's not just the meat industry, but animal rescue and animal rights groups, that criticize PETA.

I have had the opportunity to be friends with shelter owners and rescue owners, kill and no-kill. I let their opinions be my guide. They all hate PETA because PETA euthenizises, as you say, way too aggressively.

The ones at no-kill shelters will often overfill to rescue an animal from a shelter they know is going to euthenize it. They often have lists of foster families who will take in animals with most "terrible conditions". I have a family member who fosters Feline Leukemia cats exclusively (it's contageious) and gives them a good life. Properly cared for, they have a solid chance to live well almost their entire natural span. And she always has room for more. So PETA putting down a cat with Feline Leukemia instead of finding people like her? Unacceptable.

The kill shelters I know people from? Last resort. Their kill rate is virtually zero because they start bugging their friends if they know they're getting overfull and have a hard animal to home, and that animal usually gets homed with one of the people who works there.

Both of them have relationships with larger-scale rescues. The larger rescues have aggressive foster farms that usually has openings for high risk dogs, and often have Animal Behaviorists volunteering that can help to find homes for animals with unique behavioral issues.

It's a lie to say that no rescue animal EVER has to go down. But the consensus of the people who matter is that PETA simply has never shown evidence of trying hard enough to save the ones that should be saved.

Pretty much this. Local butcher beef is so much better (and better for the world) than the freeze-packed stuff in a supermarket. Ditto with chicken.

Ditto with Tuna, too. Tuna is a local resource here, so I much rather a fresh filet cooked rare than that overdone canned stuff (which I'll still eat sometimes, I admit).