aCosmicWave @ aCosmicWave @lemm.ee

Posts

40

Comments

178

Joined

2 yr. ago

What was trying to say is that I believe that neutrons are experiencing being neutrons, protons are experiencing being protons, electrons are experiencing being electrons, etc. Meanwhile an atom that contains all of the above is a more complex system and thus has a higher level of consciousness. Again I don’t equate consciousness with intelligence but more of an elementary state of awareness that allows these entities to perform their function.

This is really hard for me to articulate because I’m coming at this from a philosophical point of view and not a scientific one!

I love the way you’ve articulated the n+1 level of complexity! As if the information that we consume alters the complexity of our own consciousness.

These cells are able to solve simple puzzles and behave differently as individuals as compared to groups too.

A hair cell that has had no prior exposure to a brand new environment is able to sense the change and adapt itself. To me this is indicative of an elementary consciousness.

I am purely panpsychist. My intuition says that literally everything in this universe has a bit of consciousness in it. An atom has a bit, a cell has a few bits, a human brain has trillions of bits.

As an analogy, in a vivid dream "you" may be holding an apple, but in the end both you and that apple are made of dream-stuff. I believe that is the case for reality as well.

I commented this elsewhere but please take a look at a few minutes of this video. Just because we do not understand the mechanism does not mean that it doesn't exist.

A renowned biologist Michael Levin took some basic skin cells from a frog embryo and separated them from the rest of the organism. Astonishingly these “skin” cells rebooted themselves and converted into a new type of organism that is able to solve simple mazes, and demonstrate individual and group behaviors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3lsYlod5OU&t=389s

I think consciousness is all about experience. Neither the neuron, nor you, Ron (I assume your name is Ron for the pun), has the full context. However who has the more complete conscious experience? You are able to touch, smell, see, hear and taste. A neuron is not. Who is to say there aren't other senses in the higher consciousness that are beyond your comprehension, Ron?

I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted. I think that the scientific method is invaluable. I also think that it will never be complete because it is mostly quantitative while consciousness is qualitative (qualia are defined as instances of subjective, conscious experience).

For as long as science keeps subjective experience out of the equation (which by definition it kinda has to) then I also don't think there will ever be a theory of everything.

As to your thesis, there are not infinite levels of “life” below us, right? At some point, the mechanisms at play are purely chemical interactions.

I do not believe that are are infinite levels of "life" below us or above, but I do believe there are infinite levels of consciousness. But my definition of consciousness is not restricted to life. I do not equate consciousness with “intelligence” or life. I think consciousness is a fundamental property of every little thing in our universe. I believe that higher levels of consciousness arise due to higher levels of systemic complexity. This definition is more intuitive to me as compared to the modern definition where conscious life develops on earth from essentially nothing that is itself “alive”.

As an aside, I don’t know that I’d place the subconscious below consciousness in the foundational way you built. I have wondered whether what we’ve thought of as the subconcious is merely the manifestation of right hemisphere expressing itself

This is a fascinating idea! Thank you for sharing and I'll be sure to read more about this.

An interesting point is that no level below consciousness does science. No organ (besides the brain), no cell, no DNA strand, ponders the the question you pose.

I would argue that all levels below us do science, at our meta level we simply have ability to observe and describe the science that they do. Sure our cells almost definitely do not have the capacity ponder the question that I raised. But how do you know they don't have other ways to express their agency? A renown biologist Michael Levin took some basic skin cells from a frog embryo and separated them from the rest of the organism. Astonishingly these "skin" cells rebooted themselves and converted into a new type of organism that is able to solve simple mazes, and demonstrate individual and group behaviors. Source: https://youtu.be/p3lsYlod5OU?si=t2-mBbwNWTSX2Lp8&t=389

I want to add that there was a study in Princeton designed to prove the existence of a Global human consciousness. It ran for 15 years and proved the hypothesis with odds in favor of a trillion to one.

https://noosphere.princeton.edu/results.html#alldata

I actually share your thoughts! I used our body as an example to illustrate my point but I believe that this concept expands beyond our bodies and into everything.

We could both be wrong though!

I was hoping that the CEO of Lemmy would!

How about now?

Thanks so much for sharing your LSD experience! That is wild. One thing that I struggle with internally is whether humanity is good or bad for the greater organism on this planet?

On the one hand, humans have the best chance of expanding all life from our planet to other planets and thus ensuring the survival of this organism should anything catastrophic happen to Earth. On the other hand we also have the best chance of destroying ourselves along with everything else here.

I was watching Oppenheimer recently and I just couldn't believe that the brightest minds of that generation banded together to create... a weapon. Instead of launching rockets to other planets we are launching rockets at ourselves. It's pure idiocy. Then I thought about how things aren't that much different today. The brightest engineering minds are working for large corporations that are also destroying our planet, our attention, our privacy, etc.

I'm really curious to hear where you stand on the matter!

I do know! As my favorite job in the world thus far has been delivering Chinese food ☺️.

I hope that you’re feeling better today! Apologies if my post sent you further down into negativity yesterday.

Please bear in mind that I was in a pretty negative headspace when I wrote this post yesterday! On most days, I’d wager that it is in the best interest of each higher entity to nurture and support the lower entities because they need each other to exist.

In other words I wouldn’t be able to enjoy life if my heart was in constant pain or simply gave out. Likewise, the heart would have more trouble doing its thing if I chose to never exercise, only eat fried foods, etc.

I’d like to think that each layer “desires” an equilibrium and harmony.

I have a panpsychist definition of consciousness.

I do not equate consciousness with “intelligence” or life for that matter. I think consciousness is a fundamental property of every little thing in our universe. I believe that higher levels of consciousness arise due to higher levels of systemic complexity.

This definition is more intuitive to me as compared to the modern definition where conscious life develops on earth from essentially nothing that is itself “alive”.

I can completely relate! I sometimes enter states of depression or anxiety without seemingly any triggers. I could be having a great evening and then wake up the next morning feeling anxious or numb. It's like my subconscious is bubbling stuff up to let me know that it's not happy but my modern life has made me so disconnected from my own feelings that I don't even understand what it wants.

Thanks! I guess my main point is that at every layer each conscious entity is not aware of the more complex conscious entity above it. If a heart knew that it works tirelessly to beat 2.5 billion times in an average lifetime only to support a (typically) ungrateful higher consciousness that gets to experience joy, happiness, flavor, touch, scent etc while the heart experiences none of it... it may consider stopping beating. It's in the best interest of the higher consciousness to keep the lower consciousness beating along for as long as possible while being essentially in the dark.