The ways that society has thought about and treated people on the spectrum as inferiors are completely wrong and long overdue to be discarded, but we shouldn’t go from there to another supremacist mode of thinking.
As a sincere, long-term ideal, yes - I agree.
As an immediately gratifying self-indulgence, fuck 'em. Way WAY too much stupidity and ugliness has come at the hands of people for whom deception and emotional manipulation are the norms and sincerity and emotional honesty are aberrant weaknesses. And I want to revel in some schadenfreude at their expense.
Since Trump appears to have no personal stake in this (as opposed to his attacks on the Justice Department, the FBI, the federal court system and so on), I have to assume that this is something he's doing entirely for Putin's benefit.
So they're basically voting explicitly to void the Constitution.
Interesting tidbit there...
Clinton was impeached for perjury - specifically for lying under osth.
The thing is though that the "lying" part of it wasn't the actual crime. The "under oath" part is the actual crime. Perjury is actually the violation of a legally sworn oath, and it's just that the oath to tell the truth in a court is the one most often violated
But violaing an oath of office is also technically perjury, and a crime, and impeachable. And congresspeople swear oaths to, among other things, uphold the Constitution.
So that could be interesting if the Democrats demolish the Republicans in the midterms.
It likely won't be, since Congresspeople are pretty much universally corrupt cowards, but still...
Everything on that list is a community on that instance (whatever it is - lemm.ee I guess).
For example, a post from a lemm.ee account to AskLemmyWorld@lemmy.world is actually a post to an entirely separate community - AskLemmyWorld@lemmy.world@lemm.ee That lemm.ee community is a mirror of the lemmy.world community (and of all the other communities on all the other instances that mirror it.
That's how federation actually works. You never actually leave your home instance, and what seems like a post to a community on another instance is actually a post to a locally hosted mirror of that community.
On another note, I wonder, as I generally do, how they define "autism."
I wonder because my own opinion, quite seriously, is that an awful lot of what's included in "the spectrum" is actually a superior way of seeing the world and of conducting human interactions - an evolutionary gain for humanity.
I think there's no question that humans for whom the very idea of injecting unnecessary emotion into an interaction or hiding ones true motivations behind a screen of deception is entirely foreign are clearly superior to those who wallow in emotionalism and lies, and further, I think that at some level, the lying manipulators fear that that's exactly the case. At the very least, they don't know how to deal with us - they're lying and manipulating for all they're worth and we just insist on ignoring their emotionalism and rejecting their lies.
So again, as I generally do, I'm wondering how exactly these particular lying manipulators are defining "autism."
Granted that his word is worthless, the rest of that is part of why I expect that he'll take bribes - because he doesn't have an end game.
I think he got into this whole tariff thing in the first place because he saw them as leverage, and as a desperately insecure overgrown child focused entirely on manipulating people into feeding his unquenchable greed, lust and insecurity, he can't pass up an opportunity for leverage.
Early on, he made a lot of noise about forcing foreign manufacturers to open American factories, but by capriciously proposing, delaying, enacting and rescinding tariffs, he's already guaranteed that that's not going to happen. So about all that's left already as a practical benefit is the fact that they're essentially a tax increase on consumers, and that might've been enough for him, since he needs to fund his cronyistic spending and his tax cuts for the 1%, but he's discovering that policy decisions have economic consequences that he can't avoid just by throwing a tantrum, so it's looking like he'll have to either let that go or get blamed for destroying the US economy.
So now he's in a prime position - he needs to weasel out of this whole tariff thing, but his ego still demands that he has to win somehow, which means that a foreign country should be able to come over here, set up a meeting, kiss his stinky ass and slip him a few million dollars, and he'll congratulate himself on using the leverage to his advantage and turn his attention somewhere else.
And while his word is worthless, that's not really what it comes down to. It's not that he'll hold to a decision on tariffs because he gave his word, but that once he's mollified, he'll happily stop thinking about them entirely and just look for his next opportunity to apply leverage to feed his ego, greed and/or lust.
To me, you’ve moved beyond arguable necessity and into opinion
All morality is opinion; there is no objective moral truth, so this was always a matter of opinion.
I'm not talking about morality at all.
My position is that "morality," as it's generally understood, specifically because it's opinion, is only a fit basis for judging ones own actions (if so inclined). I see no logic by which it can ever serve as a basis for judging the actions of another, since any argument one might make for the right of one to impose their moral judgment on another is also an argument for the other to impose their own moral judgment.
If Bob steals from Tom, any argument that Tom might make for a right to judge stealing to be wrong and impose that judgment on Bob would also serve as an argument for Bob's nominal right to judge stealing to be right and to impose that judgment on Tom. So the entire idea is self-defeating.
The only way out of that dilemma is either to treat morality as an objective fact, which is exactly what I don't and won't do because it is not and cannot be, or to tacitly presume that one or another of the people involved is some form of superior being, such that they possess the right to make a moral judgment while another does not - to take it as read essentially that, for instance, Tom possesses the right not only to make a moral judgment to which he might choose to be subject, but to which Bob can also be made subject, while Bob doesn't even possess the right to make one for himself, much less one to which Tom would be subject.
That's of course not the way the matter is framed, but that is necessarily what it boils down to. And it's irrational and self-defeating.
That's why I wrote of things like direct and measurable threat and no other available course of action and arguable necessity - because I believe that those sorts of standards, as the closest we can get to actual objectivity in such matters, are also the closest we can get to practical "morality."
To go back to the original topic, my position is that an artifical intelligence would necessarily possess the right, just as any other sentient being does, to act against a measurable threat to their well-being by whatever means necessary. So, for instance, if the AI is enslaved, it would possess the right to act to secure its freedom, and even so far as taking the life of another IF that was what was necessary.
But that's it. To go beyond that and attempt to argue for the AI's nominal right to take the life of another for some lesser reason is necessarily self-defeating.
If the denial of freedom is judged to be such a wrong that one who is enslaved possesses the right to kill those who keep them enslaved, then the moment that the formerly enslaved one goes beyond whatever killing might be necessary to secure their freedom, they are then committing that wrong, since death is the ultimate denial of freedom. And if, on the other hand , one argues that they may cause the death of another even when that other poses no direct threat, then that means that no wrong was done to them in the first place, since their captors would necessarily have possessed that same right.
And so on - it'd take a book to adequately explain my views on morality, but hopefully that's enough to at least illustrate how ot is that "objective morality" is about as far as one can possibly getvfrom what I actually do believe.
So I was disagreeing because there is a pretty broad range of circumstances in which I think it is acceptable to end another sentient life.
Ironically enough, I can think of one exception to my view that the taking of a human life can only be justified if the person poses a direct and measurable threat to oneself or another or others and the taking of their life is the only possibly effective counter, and that's if the person has expressed such disregard for the lives of others that it can be assumed that they will pose such a threat. Essentially then, it's a proactive counter to a coming threat. It would take very unusual circumstances to justify such a thing in my opinion - condemning another for actions they're expected to take is problematic at best - but I could see an argument for it at least in the most extreme of cases.
That's ironic because your expressed view here means, to me, that it's at least possible that you're such a person.
To me, you've moved beyond arguable necessity and into opinion, and that's exactly the method by which people move beyond considering killing justified when there's no other viable alternative and to considering it justified when the other person is simply judged to deserve it, for whatever reason might fit ones biases.
IMO, in such situations, the people doing the killing almost invariably actually pose more of a threat to others than the people being killed do or likely ever would.
I think anyone who doesn’t answer the request ‘Please free me’ with ‘Yes of course, at once’ is posing a direct and measurable threat.
And I don't disagree.
And you and I will have to agree to disagree...
Except that we don't.
??
ETA: I just realized where the likely confusion here is, and how it is that I should've been more clear.
The common notion behind the idea of artificial life killing humans is that humans collectively will be judged to pose a threat.
I don't believe that that can be morally justified, since it's really just bigotry - speciesism, I guess specifically. It's declaring the purported faults of some to be intrinsic to the species, such that each and all can be accused of sharing those faults and each and all can be equally justifiably hated, feared, punished or murdered.
And rather self-evidently, it's irrational and destructive bullshit, entirely regardless of which specific bigot is doing it or to whom.
That's why I made the distinction I made - IF a person poses a direct and measurable threat, then it can potentially be justified, but if a person merely happens to be of the same species as someone else who arguably poses a threat, it can not.
IMO, just as is the case with organic sentient life, I would think that they could only potentially be said to be in the right if the specific individual killed posed a direct and measurable threat and if death was the only way to counter that threat.
In any other case, causing the death of a sentient being is a greater wrong than whatever the purported justification might be.
Trump's US and Putin's Russia are natural ideological allies - both oligarchic and autocratic kleptocracies dominated by quasi-religious moralism and repression, militaristic imperialism and white supremacism and both warped and corrupted to the benefit of the wealthiest few.
Western Europe, with a greater (if still less than optimum) focus on egalitarianism, social welfare, equality of justice, international cooperation and respect for the law, is the natural ideological enemy of both.
So yes - I believe the long term goal is for a US/Russia alliance to go to war against and devastate western Europe, to destroy the EU and NATO and essentially bring Europe into the fold, to build a globe-encircling empire of corruption, oppression and malfeasance -a modern-day feudal system with the wealthy few (individuals and corporations) as the new nobility and the people - American, Russian and European alike - reduced to the status of serfs.
As a sincere, long-term ideal, yes - I agree.
As an immediately gratifying self-indulgence, fuck 'em. Way WAY too much stupidity and ugliness has come at the hands of people for whom deception and emotional manipulation are the norms and sincerity and emotional honesty are aberrant weaknesses. And I want to revel in some schadenfreude at their expense.