UsernameHere @ UsernameHere @lemmy.world

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Bernie Sanders: votes with Democratic Party because that is what politicians do for work.

You: “Nooooo! This misrepresents my positions!”

Harris and Cheney: “we need to put aside our differences to stop Trump”

You: “Nooooo! This is called moving to the right!”

Bernie Sanders: votes with the Democratic Party You: this is not called working with Bernie Sanders!

Throwing away your vote against fascism and thus allowing fascism to take power is not “disagreeing with democrats”.

Thanks for having actual discourse and being genuine. I also would like ranked choice voting and a party that better represents Americans.

Unfortunately because of citizens united and the two party system and first past the poll voting we have to support the lesser of two evils to make progress.

And I realize that not everyone who suggests we ignore that reality is acting in bad faith. But it is definitely a strategy of bad faith actors and then repeated by those who don’t know any better.

Democrats: work with Bernie Sanders

You: this is called moving to the right!

If you missed all the "the economy is fine, just ignore the evidence of your pocketbook" bullshit that was shoveled out by Democrats, that's on you.

Literally made up which is consistent with everything you’ve said so far.

Exacerbated and enabled by Biden, to your considerable delight.

I’m not delighted at all by it. That is why I place the blame where it is due. On Netanyahu. Because this isn’t something that should be spun into a political talking point like you’re doing.

We're supposed to be better than Russia or Iran. But there's a genocide to support, so you'll make excuses for it until it's complete.

You’re the one trying to reallocate blame from Netanyahu onto Biden to support your political narrative.

Ha.

Nothing to say because you’re wrong? I know.

They capitulate and excuse it by calling it "reaching across the aisle." Republicans are never expected to reach across the aisle. They're never expected to be magnanimous or gracious. They're never expected to move to the left in order to appease Democrats.

Republicans are never expected to do those things by the Republican Party. Why does that matter to us? You want us to follow their example?

Democrats keep moving to the right to appease Republicans. They don't move to the left to please their own base.

I literally gave you examples of democrats moving left and working with Bernie and AOC and you proved me right by showing you had no rebuttals.

Everything that isn't performative worship of failure is "republican spin" to you.

No, I’m saying you are literally repeating what republicans put in their attack ads.

The reality is that there's an ongoing genocide.

Caused by Netanyahu not Biden.

The reality is that the Biden administration supported it unconditionally.

Biden only support Israel proportionally to what Iran supported Russia.

And what was the last thing either of them proposed that had as much support from the party as "reaching across the aisle" to capitulate to Republicans?

Reducing healthcare costs and forgiving student loans are a couple examples off the top of my head. I never said democrats capitulated to republicans. Not sure why you threw that in there.

Democrats tried to pretend that nothing was wrong while people couldn't afford to eat.

This is literally the republican spin on Biden pointing out that inflation metrics have improved since their peak.

I see you've fantasized this out.

I see you’re avoiding the question. Sorry if reality doesn’t support your narrative.

Democrats don't reach left.

You don’t consider Bernie Sanders or AOC to be further left than the rest of the democrats? Oh you’re just arguing in bad faith… gotcha

[The most successful third-party candidacy came in 1912, when Theodore Roosevelt finished second and got around 27 percent of the popular vote. Of course, he was a former president of the United States who hadn’t been renominated by his party and formed his own party. In recent times, H. Ross Perot’s third-party candidacy in 1992 got 19 percent of the popular vote, the second most in US history—but he got zero electoral votes. With the electoral college system, it’s highly, highly unlikely a third-party candidate could win an election.

Polls put the two biggest parties, the Green Party and the Libertarian Party, at around one percent of the popular vote, whereas in 2016, they got around four to five percent of the vote.](https://www.bu.edu/articles/2024/is-voting-third-party-a-wasted-vote/)

[Third parties that have been established were either short lived or, like the Libertarian and Green Parties, have had little impact on federal and state elections other than bringing more attention to issues for voters or siphoning votes from major-party candidates, sometimes serving a spoiler role in elections.

However, as has been the case for prior third-party candidates, Kennedy’s initially higher levels of support eventually faded. Kennedy also struggled to gain ballot access in many states, with his efforts landing him on the ballot in 21 states, and 13 additional states pending before he suspended his campaign and endorsed Trump.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/651278/support-third-political-party-dips.aspx)

It's getting to the point where a third party push seems logical.

OP is suggesting we throw away our votes on a 3rd party. That has always been a bad faith argument in a first past the polls system. It is statistically impossible to win that way which is why it is a bad faith argument.

I’m not claiming it’s bad faith as an emotional response. I’m pointing out that when someone suggests the option that guarantees failure, they are not acting in good faith.

Harris lost the popular vote by 1.6%. Trump gained more votes than he got in 2020. It was a close race but Trump got all the most important swing states with the most electoral votes. The scales were not tipped very far in Trumps favor.

And furthermore, that nobody should critique their performance or policies, because that constitutes sowing apathy?

Saying we should waste our votes on 3rd parties or claiming democrats are the same as the republican fascists is not “critiquing performance or policies”. To even claim that is a bad faith argument.

Don't fucking gaslight me. Democrats ran on "the economy is great actually".

Democrats didn’t run on this. Biden simply pointed out that inflation was going down but there was more to do.

Bad faith actors tried to spin that into “bIdEn SaId GrOcErIeS aRe ChEaP oMgWtF”.

supported GENOCIDE for the sheer joy of it and no other reason

Such a blatant bad faith argument. If he really just wants to commit genocide then why specifically arm Israel. Aren’t there easier ways to commit genocide. You’re pretending that he is some Bond villain to ignore nuance and geopolitics.

But since you and your entire wing of the party has always loved everything he ever stood for, you were happy for his endorsement. Senpai noticed you.

What is my wing of the party? Anything you pretend to know about me is based on assumptions just like everything else you’ve said. Finding common ground and reaching across the aisle is how you get things done in a democracy with many different ideologies.

Democrats lost because fewer Democratic voters showed up this year. That is a sign of apathy. If we spend the next 4 years sowing more apathy then it won’t matter what we are saying the months leading up to the election because everyone will already be apathetic.

To pretend democrats failed spectacularly is to ignore the billionaires doing things like buying votes to win or Russian bots sowing apathy to Democratic voters to convince them to not vote or vote 3rd party.

I see you’re federated with startrek.website. Ever heard the saying “you can do everything right and still lose”.

Apathy caused Democratic voters to stay home. Continuing to sow more apathy will guarantee we lose the next one, if there is a next one.

Oh, now the economy at the time of the election was weak. Last month it was roaring and everyone who noticed that they couldn't afford groceries was a Russian shill.

Not sure what you are babbling about here. Republican ads during the election were all focused on the high inflation.

Democrats supported genocide, ran anti-trans bigotry in their own ads, and reveled in getting the endorsement of Dick Cheney. They moved to the right and lost. Quit defending their shitty behavior.

The US military supports Israel to prevent Iran from getting stronger in the region because Iran has teamed up with China, Russia and North Korea and are actively supply drones and other weapons to Russia for use in Ukraine.

Netanyahu is responsible for the genocide. He is the only one who can stop it.

Cheney had absolutely nothing to do with Harris losing. Absolutely nothing in the polls or anecdotal evidence supports that claim but it is heavily pushed as a taking point here on lemmy from lemmy.ml so that fact should speak to how disingenuous it is.

They didn’t lose because they weren’t progressive enough. They lost because Biden inherited a pandemic that caused inflation and weak economy that required increasing interest rates.

The only party that has a chance of beating the republicans is the Democratic Party. There is no other party.

As long as we are sowing apathy towards the Democratic Party we won’t have a chance of beating the fascist republicans that show up to vote no matter what.

So you can call it disagreeing or call it being worried or call it constructive criticism. It doesn’t matter what you call it as long as it sows apathy it will increase the fascist republicans chances of winning.

People like OP are reposting the same posts and commenting in each one systematically with comments to sow apathy. It has been obvious to more than just me for a while now.

Obviously it wasn’t just one thing that caused Trump to win but a culmination of things that tipped the scales.

Both sides are the same! /s

Still asking for democrats to throw away their votes on a 3rd party because you think both sides are the same eh?

That’s how Trump got elected a 2nd term. But that’s probably why you’re still pushing that narrative.