Therealgoodjanet @ Therealgoodjanet @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

How Hamas feels about Zionism/Israel:

14. The Zionist project is a racist, aggressive, colonial and expansionist project based on seizing the properties of others; it is hostile to the Palestinian people and to their aspiration for freedom, liberation, return and self-determination. The Israeli entity is the plaything of the Zionist project and its base of aggression.

How Hamas feels about Jewish people:

16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.

There’s a bit more, it isn’t too long, you can find it here: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full

“Trust us bro, we will show you the evidence if... oops, we mean when we find it. And if we don’t show you anything, it doesn’t mean we don’t have it, we just don’t want to show it. But it’s super real, definitely existing, non-fabricated proof.

Sincerely, The IDF”

B’tselem, The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories says the following:

Although Israel declared an end to its military administration in Gaza, it continues to control critical aspects of life there. It controls all border crossings by land, apart from Rafah, as well as Gaza’s sea and air space. This control allows Israel to exclusively monitor the movement of people and goods in and out of Gaza, which it regulates according to Israeli interests. This holds true even when Gaza residents wish only to transit through Israel in order to reach the West Bank or other countries.

Regarding moving of the goal post, you brought up Egypt, not me.

If you want to continue discussing in good faith, please stick to the talking points.

It seems you haven’t read any of the linked articles, so there is no need to talk about this any further until you do.

So because Egypt isn’t doing enough, Israel isn’t to blame? Right. Solid argument.

What Egypt does or doesn’t do does not in any way negate the fact that Israel is completely out of line.

What an argument “but look at them, they are also bad, which means the even badder guys must not be as bad”.

If you read the charter, you can see that if any of these things apply, it can be labelled a genocide. And you pick one and say “you need to provide proof”, glossing over the glaring fact that even without, it already counts as a genocide.

But sure, if you insist;

• CBC
• NPR
• USA Today
• People’s World
• UN
• Foreign Policy
• ABC News

You mean right to defend itself under Article 51 of the UN charter, right?

That doesn’t apply if you’re an occupying force. And for anyone saying “Israel doesn’t occupy Gaza, there are no Israeli officials there” if you control movement, water, gas, power, food supplies, where civilians can and can’t travel to, and the territory is not allowed to exist independently, all of that “right to defend yourself” is null and void.

So, let’s look at the definition of genocide and see where Israel lands here.

Definition

Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Killing members of the group;

• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
• Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
• Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
• Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Source: the UN

So; let’s have a quick look at these points:

(1) Over 11,000 deaths, majority of civilians. And I’m just talking about deaths since Oct 7, I did not include any numbers from before that. Check.

(2) Illegal occupation and cutting off food, water, electricity and free movement. Check.

(3) Unknown to me.

(4) Unknown to me.

The head of the UN, Craig Mokhiber, just retired and called it unequivocally a genocide, here’s a source for that, but if you don’t like this source, you can just Google this and find plenty of other sources.

So, please tell me. How does Israel not fit as a genocidal regime?

Oh look, one genocidal country helping the other, making genocide easier…

because we (have) no battle with patients or civilians at all," Netanyahu said.

That’s an interesting statement considering the fact that there have been at least 137 attacks on health care (hospitals, ambulances etc). Source

It’s a good thing they never lied before

Can you imagine her outrage of anyone said that about any group she is part of? Women. American. Divorced. Military. You name it. “Kill all of them”, “How can you say that, that’s inhumane and you should be locked up in a mental hospital”, but when it’s Palestinians it’s fine I guess.

That’s right. So far 60 hostages have gone missing due to Israeli strikes. So, yeah. They don’t give a single shit.

Sorry, I should have been more clear; the actual apartheid started with the creation of the state of Israel (of course). The unrest, suppression, stealing of land and property, and discrimination of people started way before.

That was not the discussion, the point of discussion was “before or after 1948”.

The Balfour Declaration is a great place to start, here’s the Wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

It started before 1948 even, because although Israel was officially not a state until then, there was turmoil because of people moving there and wanting to start their state on occupied land. If you look at the history there was unrest around WWI already. It just escalated after 1948 because the west legitimized the existence of Israel.

Of course, yes. But for most people on here ~75 yrs = forever. It was well before most of us were born. But you’re right, it started mostly in 1948.

I know, but apartheid in Israel did not just start now. It’s been going on since forever. They can deny all they want, but they keep telling on themselves. Mostly unintentional of course, but admitting regardless.

If that isn’t an admission…