ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them] @ ThereRisesARedStar @hexbear.net

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2 yr. ago

The point is it tankie is an amorphous McCarthyist insult. No one knows exactly what you're saying because most of the people who use it aren't on exactly the same page. I've been called a tankie for supporting Cuba's new family code and the intensely democratic process behind it and for saying the taean work system is a good system.

Euromaidenpress, lmao

The people en-masse being in control. Representative democracy, by it's nature, creates a "ruling class", the representatives. Only a direct democracy asks the people what they think of each and every issue, but that is impractical in my opinion.

No, that's just our government/s. You can have representative democracy where representatives are beholden to their constituents, and where they are easily recallable if they do not follow those interests to a T. This is one of the many reforms socialists want to make to the democratic process.

...and I don't feel that leaders of state owned capital are particularly any different from leaders of privately owned capital. Both are individuals in privileged positions of power that work to maintain themselves above the workers. To me it's not the ownership that matters but the fact you have a ruling class at all.

Genuinely no offense but this is a position born of ignorance. Under a democratically run state economy the representatives only get rich through corruption. Under capitalism the owners get rich through the extraction of surplus labor value and the politicians in their pockets get rich through corruption.

Corruption is a drop in the bucket compared to surplus labor value theft. Compare how wealthy Pelosi is to how wealthy Jeff Bezos or Elon musk are. And people like Pelosi are only that rich because of insider trading, which couldn't exist under socialism.

You know you can do planning without markets right? Like without price signals and entities buying and selling to each other

Why do you believe that?

But a planned economy, you could say is, in essence, an extremely tightly regulated market.

Why do you believe this?

Congrats I guess? It mostly focuses on eastern europe.

Lol your other comment in a seperate subthread

Maybe make them watch American history X or something,

That's a spicy holocaust trivialization

You know what you're saying aligns with what they're saying right?

Read "Riding the wave" about how scandinavia relies on imperialism to function.

The hexbears will attack me for saying that a regulated free market is good and a planned economy is bad.

Yes, and we are right. The Soviets went from an agrarian backwater to an industrial giant in basically a decade using economic planning, doing all the complex math by hand. The US is a semi-deindustrialized state with access to supercomputers.

Some people on the left recognize that planned economies are more efficient than markets based on empirical research on the soviet economy

What specifically is at odds?

You do realize that the incentives of capitalism necessitate that right?

Non pacifist feminists got the goods in England and scared american men enough for them to concede to the domestic feminist movement.

Ah gotcha

I would read "the economy and class structure of german fascism" which goes into how the petite bourgeoisie form the base of fascism

I agree but in this context I'm literally telling them to read about it.

Okay, so extremely abridged, here is what seperates capitalism from socialism.

Under capitalism, private individuals own the means of production, distribution, and sustenance. Workers are forced to go to one of these private individuals and exchange their labor power for a wage. Capitalist profit is generated by paying the worker less than their labor power is worth but enough to sustain workers as a class. The workers are prevented from using the means of production without entering into the wage labor model through the threat of physical violence.

Under socialism, the means of production are managed in common, somewhere along a sliding scale of the people working in a workplace and democracy having control of how the workplace operates depending on the system

You'll note that these both can operate within markets, and both require at least some planning.

Video: we need a mixture of capitalism and communism is bullshit

Book: Explaining why markets are bad

Edit: this is ignoring the way the state plays a role in these economic formations but Im trying to keep it simple.