TheOubliette @ TheOubliette @lemmy.ml

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2 yr. ago

You're free to make as many posts as you'd like about whatever topic you'd like, but I won't be pretending you aren't just bailing on a comment chain because you ran out of steam.

Just be honest, friend. It's a lot less work to just be honest. You are way too invested in fighting to the death and aren't seeing reason.

I’m just doing what you’re doing, not talking about the topic the other person wants to talk about.

I am directly quoting and responding to basically everything said to me, lol. You might be projecting, as own comments are rife with deflections and topic changes. I ignored this 3-4 times before making a note of it just now.

Show me I’m wrong by talking about the topic I want to talk about, the original post.

I mean, you have said many things related to the original post and I have addressed many of them. You are, after the fact, trying to invent there being only one relevant and restricted original topic, which is, hilariously, not something you ever explicitly stated until just now. You haven't even really stated it, you are couching it in a question.

Feel free to make a top level comment about "the original topic" and I will feel free to respond to it or not.

The tactics you were disagreeing with were me asking people where they picked up the habit kf having strong dismissive opinions before investigating a topic and calling out national chauvinism. You are engaging in childish taunting.

Though I am, of course, perfectly happy with my approach and have been. You are being hypocritical.

You're just bailing on the rabbit hole you chose to go down because you ran out of retorts. My replies to "the main topic" are already there and cover adding additional context and calling out poor behavior or problematic tendencies. So far you have not directly addressed any of those things. Are you sure that's what you want to discuss?

Is this the "rational thinking and supportive behavior to convince people on your ideas" that you said I should adopt to avoid "push[ing] people away and remind them of how they don’t want anything to do with the “left”"?

Please do your best to reply to what I say rather than changing the subject. You can always choose to just not reply if you don't have an actual response.

Please do your best to reply to what I say rather than changing the subject.

A convenient excuse to stifle a person's consenting sexuality and agency.

It is not a convenient excuse, it is an understanding of other cultures and their histories. I did not even present a judgment of whether it is good for this to have happened.

Written erotica hurts no one, and those arguing otherwise are falling into their authoritarian tendencies.

Who here is arguing otherwise and what are their authoritarian tendencies?

If you don't like sex work like pictured/video pornography and prostitution I can at least understand your reasoning.

I couldn't because there are different ways someone can like or not like those things and they have different impacts on society when turned into political action.

Both have massive issues of trafficking and sexual slavery. But swinging the hammer down like this on written erotica is purely authoritarian.

What does it mean to be "purely authoritarian"? This is not a concept that I have ever seen coherently employed. Do you just mean that you believe it is unjust? That does not really address trying to understand more about where it is coming from, which is what the part of my comment that you quoted is describing. In fact, depending on what "authoritarian" even means, acknowledging the basic history of how China acquired anti-sex industry stances would require you to understand that it is not "purely" so, but draws from a reaction to systemic sexual violence and oppression.

In a sense, this kind of oversimplification is the core kernel of national chauvinism and orientalism.

And trying to justify arrests made as "inconsistent enforcement" is giving cover, purposeful or otherwise, to that authoritarianism.

Putting aside my criticism of the term authoritarian, what cover am I providing by providing relevant context about regional enforcement that sinophobic Westerners - who are all over this comment section - are usually unaware of?

I wonder who taught you to end every comment with an insult,

I haven't ended any comment with insults. I have called out poor behavior and racism/xenophobia, however.

My approach, generally speaking, is to engage fairly patiently and neutrally until it is clear that others are abusing this or if their behavior crosses serious lines like national chauvinism or ridiculous levels of condescension and bad faith, which is how you are approaching every disagreeing comment. Because at that point, ignoring the poor behavior tends to lead to it getting even worse.

trying to use shame to coerce silence

Look at how absurd this language is. You'd think I had arrested you and am now publicly berating you before throwing you in jail rather than correcting ignorant opinions and suggesting being less arrogant and national chauvinist when presented with disagreeing opinions.

There is no coercion in me telling you to be curious and humble or not national chauvinist. However, there is a ton of actual coercion in the sex industry. Try to have some perspective.

instead of using rational thinking and supportive behavior to convince people on your ideas.

I have presented rational thinking and look at how you and the Australian have responsed. And I would be happy to be supportive - so long as you recant the sinophobic statements and orientation you have presented. Because I'm not going to support that.

Or is your goal to just push people away and remind them of how they don’t want anything to do with the “left”

lmao you think growing the left is about tolerating arrogance and national chauvinism?

Most things labeled as "sex work" is human trafficking. I am educated and I regularly organize with former participants in the sex industry.

Why would I need another? Your selective reading of the original you posted is what was pointed out.

Re: MAGA, lazy sinophobia and only seeing the red meat for it is more of their thing. Not, "here is the rest of the context you ommitted". If that is your metric for badnesd, you are guiltu of it.

Lefties characterize much of labor under capitalism as wage slavery that builds profit off of injured bodies. And they seek to undo those conditions. Are you aware of anyone here that looks at those who must injure themselves to work and does not want that to go away?

Your responses here are a confused mileu. It seems like you know basically nothing about others' stances but feel like you still deserve an (dismissive) opinion. Who taught you that this was okay?

Sex workers are workers, end of story.

Most things labelled "sex work" are actually human trafficking and most Western left groups that oppose expansion of the sex industry and even want it banned are made up of former "sex workers". So no, not end of story, you do need to actually investigate the topic and understand it as more than a slogan.

I understand you Americans have fucked up views on sex workers and treat them like shit, but that is on you.

This is not exclusive to the United States.

Also Australia women were taken as comfort women by Japan, and yet we still legalise and protect our sex workers.

Was Australia occupied and had its people constantly forced into slavery roles, including rape, by the occupiers? Comparing a handful of captured during the war vs. decades of occupation and society-level abuse is disgusting.

Since you are presumably in Australia, can you tell me some stats on human trafficking there?

Opposing the sex industry is a common and principled left stance. It is only in capitalist countries where their cops are funded to harrass people and Johns are rarely punished where there has been a need for a "sex work is work" movement.

In countries run or established by communists, they were often facing racial or otherwise imperialist systemic rape ("comfort women" for Japanese imperialists, for example), recognized how this worked in both slavery and "transactional" capacities, and correctly banned it. Things like erotica were swept up in this total purge of marketing sex, and enforcement is inconsistent as it is usually regional.

Please so your best to educate yourself, be accurate in your summaries, and to not be sinophobic.

The correct response to being corrected on media illiteracy is "thank you".

:)

Hi friend!

For what Marxist instance would be best given your background, well there are only two total, to my knowledge, so you could just try out both and see what you like best! They are Hexbear and Lemmygrad. Lemmygrad is smaller but is more focused on Marxism-Leninism in particular. Hexbear has a ML-ancom and everything in between left unity stance and places great emphasis on making the space safe for people of marginalized groups. Lemmy.ml has many Marxists but is not explicitly commie.

For reading recommendations, this can be a difficult question to answer because there are many important texts in the Marxist tradition and some of them, particularly the foundational ones, are dense and challenging to read. I do strongly recommend reading the core works of Marx and Engels, since they define Marxism and later works are based on them. The order in which to read books really depends on how you prefet to read and learn.

I prefer to read from "the beginning" and already knew the relevant philosophical background so I just read Das Kapital right after The Communist Manifesto. But reading Das Kapital takes a long time. Reading groups dedicate months just to Volume 1. If you prefer a faster introduction and summaries, then I recommend Heinrich's companion text. Heinrich inserts some of his own opinions, but you can balance these out by reading Marxists critical of Heinrich, like Michael Roberts. If you want an even faster and simpler introduction, you can work backwards by reading short overviews from newer texts and blogs and so on and then make sure to try and tackle Capital later. But remember that the farther from the original works you get, the more likely that you will learn something incorrect about them without being in a position to notice it.

Another strategy is to start with Lenin, particularly his own notes on Hegel and Marx, and proceed to Stalin's overview of Marxism-Leninism, which includes an overview of Marxism. These are much easier to read than the source texts. All of the works so far will have Portuguese translations.

Regarding tolerance of Catholic faith, both instances will likely not care so long as this does not mean contradicting community standards, e.g. a vocal tradcath would contradict the feminist stances of both instances. Both instances have Christian comms, similar to subreddits. Lemmygrad's all seem to be inactive, though. Hexbear is, generally speaking, against insufferable New Atheist contrarianism (and so many of its original proponents became reactionary).

Regarding having Latin American context, both instances of course have a good amount of comrades from Latin America. I know that Hexbear has an active Latin America comm.

Ethnofascist? JFC.

Don't listen to this person. You can trust me, I'm actually a commune of 13 Uyghurs that writes like a Redditor and parrots US propaganda right down to its terminology. Ask me about lived experience.

To clarify I only meant the attacks on civilians.

The ANC also attacked civilians. Though you should note how dramatically more the Israelis (and the SA government and white South Africans) target civilians.

There will never be a way to justify the senseless killing of those.

When under occupation, any means necessary is not only sanctioned by international law, it is necessary. Note that the kibbutzim in the area had armories and shot at the al Aqsa flood participants, which included a wide coalition as well as whoever simply went past the walls of their own volition.

How is it senseless, by the way? Do you actually know what happened on the ground? Who did what? What was going in in their heads? What their lives were? There is an implicit chauvinism in the use of clichés and guesses rather than become educated.

There are other ways than violence to get rid of them.

No there aren't. You apparently know nothing about the history here, the many movements that attempted peaceful means, even as recent as the Great March of Return in 2018. And the repeated lies and violence that Palestinians have faced following every diplomatic agreement.

As you can see, the Israelis will speed up and openly embrace genocide at the mere perception that they are not totally dominant over those that they occupy. Israelis march not for peace or justice, but for harsher violence and getting rapists out of jail. They are an ethnic supremacist culture that embrace the genocide they are committing. You cannot "peace" your way out of that. You would condemn Palestinians to extinction.

For concentration camp victims, they are far more restrained than virtually anyone. Would you also condemn the Sioux for killing settlers occupying their land? Why not instead materially oppose the settler colonists? Your tut-tutting is just tacit both-sidesing of a decidedly imbalanced situation.

Ofc the whole situation in Gaza is fucked beyond comparison but there has to be another way on the world political stage to resolve this instead of letting it cook like we now do.

There is not. You have an unrealistic idea about how geopolitics and imperialist violence function. It is not like the movies or the 1 or 2 examples of allegedly nonviolent movements recuperated by capitalism. You're not going to win just because you are right or empathetic. You will not convince your captors and child murderers with a good speech and some protests. Most of the states, i.e. the major sourcea of military power in the world, will not step in to help you unless it serves their self interest - and most capitalist countries see subverting themselves to the US and therefore Israel as in their self interest.

And when states or similar forces do step up, you get tacit genocide apologetic PR campaigns against them. Such as, "do you condemn Hamas?"

The historical and realistic source of liberation is organized armed struggle.

Compradors