TheOubliette @ TheOubliette @lemmy.ml

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You cannot call yourself an ardent supporter of Palestine while speaking about pro-Palestinian protesters like they are aliens or well-meaning idiots manipulated by unspecified malevolent forces. Anyone that is ardently pro-Palestinisn is at the protests, organizing actions, and speaks as a member of the community, not separate from it.

Please take some time to ask yourself whether you have the experience and knowledge required to talk on this topic.

Yes, we are seeing that in spades in this comment section.

After 13 months of genocide backed by your candidates, where you were all out here sharing false lesser evil logic and other thought-terminating clichés about how you need to tolerate genocide to win, well, your candidate lost. Your strategy failed. Really, the party's strategy failed, as your political role relative to its decisions is someone who makes no demands and can be largely ignored.

Are you taking this time to reflect on how you were wrong? That maybe you shouldn't support genocide or project a false pretense of political understanding when what's underneath is really just right wing Democrat Reddit memes?

Nope, nothing is ever the fault of the party or its most dedicated soldiers. The party cannot fail, it can only be failed, right?

Blue MAGA.

We are not the ones complicit in this genocide. That is, in fact, those supporting the people committing genocide.

Well, to all the folks arguing with me on how voting for Harris was bad because of Gaza: CONGRATULATIONS! You REALLY made a point there.

Yes, I hope you can take this time to internalize a lesson: you should not support genocide or genociders. The candidate and strategy that you embraced was a gamble tbat you could support genocide and still win the election if you just recycled enough bad faith talking points at the people who consistently oppose genocide.

As you can see, you were wrong. And yet here you are trying to blame others rather than learn this lesson. Do some self-criticism instead. I hope you can forgive yourself for supporting genocide for a cynical loser like Harris.

The Palestinians had a chance under Harris.

Harris, of the Biden-Harris regime, has had an identical line to Biden's during this 13 months of US-backed genocide. Unconditional material support and some empty rhetoric trying to PR handle their base rather than change policy.

What do you imagine when you say, "had a chance"? Is it the current mass civilian bombing campaigns? Children burned alive? Mass starvation and malnutrition? Those are the things you've gone to bat for, that is the realized vision of the Biden-Harris regime.

you did nothing or voted for genocide

The people voting for genocidal candidates like Harris or Trump voted for genocode. That was something you seem to have done, but not I.

You did it from the other side of the world, where you won't have to suffer the consequences.

You cannot make your support for a genocider into an anti-privilege clapback. Do some self-criticism because this is gross.

Around 70-80% of Democratic voters are against the US sending weapons to Israel. The people most committed to this are younger, they are the people that Dems rely on to have any kind of ground game. Accordingly, Dems had no ground game.

All Harris had to do was cynically oppose the genocide by threatening literally any kind of restrictions and to cynically claim to do something about high prices at the grocery store. In both cases she waffled.

Let's be discerning: there was the potential for a better path out of this

Harris, of the Biden-Harris regime that has been the necessary backer of this genocide for 13 months, did nothing different from Biden rhetorically and was an empty suit candidate that holds the party line. A party whose reoresentatives almost unanimously provide the material support needed for this genocide despite 70-80% of their constituents opposing it.

The "better path" you are referring to is literally unconditional support for genocide. I slmost said you were describing the better path, but you didn't actually describe what it looks like. Presumably, you cannot.

but people decided on the definitely-worst-case-for-everything option on this binary choice, to ensure everyone suffers as much as possible in every situation, most assuredly during the belligerent invasion by Israel.

Who provided you with these choices? Have you considered looking at politics as more than just which monster to press a button for?

It was explained over and over; you need more time?

There was a peeiod, maybe two months, when I could barely get Harris supporters to even say the word genocide. What do you think you are explaining?

The Zionist entity, generally speakinf, does not use gas. They use large scake bombing campaigns and white phosphorus. This has already been happening for 13 months, if you weren't aware.

The Biden-Harris regime used this as a rhetorical fig leaf and Trump will not. No policy changes, no material changes on this. It is just different propaganda angles to keep doing the same thing.

I see that you have made no such comments towards the memers in this thread trying to crap on those who won't vote for genocide.

I am happy that Democratic voters did not learn that they can support genocide and still win elections.

If you tolerated genocide, you are the kind of voter that allows them to get away with these things. This enabled the current genocide - they expected you to fall in line znd it sounds like you did what you were told. It will also enable the rightward swings the party always wants to take in the interests of capital.

It would be better if you focused on becoming politically informed and worked against these forces rather than giving them legitimacy.

It will get worse with no policy change. It is an ongoing genocide with unconditional US support.

The Biden-Harris regime has provided, unconditionally, the material snd diplomatic support needed for Israel to carry out this genocide. If you support them, you are complicit.

Who should look in the mirror?

You have correctly identified the relevant difference: rhetorical approach.

Biden-Harris: feigned concern and "ceasefire" claims while providing unconditional support for the genocide.

Trump: no feigned concern or "ceasefire" claims while (presumably) providing unconditional support for the genocide.

But this difference means nothing materially, of course. If someone punches you with a smile on their face do you thank them for it?

Tlaib has generally been the sole voice against US support for Israel in Congress and very publicly refused to endorse Harris days before the election.

She got nearly twice the support in her district as Harris did.

This is because none of it is enforced and it OOS just a fig leaf. They claimed to embargo "offensive" weaponry while keeping a firehose of JDAM shipments to the Zionist entity.

The more common correlary was to sit on one's hands and provide consent for genocide or to try to vote shame on support of genocidal candidates.

Though I think you know that those who stand with Palestine tend to be more politically active than your typical Democratic voter. I know I don't see your type in the streets or running education programs or building connections to support Palestinians directly.

There were two ways to vote for Trump. 1) Mark Trump on your ballot and turn it in, or 2) Not vote for Harris, not turn in a ballot at all.

By this logic a vote for Jill Stein would be a vote for Harris, lol. Question your political masters, this just isn't logical at all.

Quit being coy, just take a bow and acknowledge your victory.

It is good for Democratic voters to have failed while supporting genocide. You shouldn't support genocide and I shouldn't have to lecture you like this. Be a good person.

You stood strong against genocide, and helped elect the only candidate who can't be reasoned with and whose stated political policy was to SPEED UP THE GENOCIDE.

Israel already has unconditional support for its genocide and opened up two new fronts with the suppory of the Biden-Harris administration. Israel does not have one hsnd tied behind its back. The dominant global empire supports it materially and diplomatically.

Your lesser evil logic means nothing here. It is again just a thought terminating cliché from your political masters. Instead of justifying lesser-evil genocide, please go and inform yourself and work to help others.

Congrats! If you thought their blood wasn't on your hands before, it absolutely is now.

Blood is on the hands of those committing and supporting genocide, not those who fifht against it. Look at how this political illogic has twisted your understanding of basic reality.

I bet you couldn't even name a single example

Palestine already faces an Israel with full material support from the US. Dems just feign concern about it and tell you they are going to look into it and hey look a bird! The "worse" would simply be a continuation of the status quo but withouy a veneer of respectability to bring Dem voters on board.

Your position is neither moral nor strategic. Morally, I don't think anyone should need to be told to not tolerate genocide, let alone normalize it, let alone support those committing it. The moral question is not really up for discussion. Strategically, well, there is nothing strategic about individuals telling each other to tolerate anything and everything, including genocide, and to guarantee your votes with no demands. That's just being a good pawn for the Democratic Party that, with incentives provided through your consent, would rather lose than reverse course on genocide. You are essentially making yourself a political non-entity.

Please go and actually do something worthwhile to help people and stop letting genocidal ghouls control your political thoughts.