Half the country is trying to make being LGBT a source of shame.
If there are people “trying to make LGBT a source of shame”, it means currently it isn’t.
You know what I meant and I know what you mean, but it’s not what I was talking about. If someone is proud of something they clearly aren’t ashamed of it, I was talking about civilized places, not red states where people can’t even wear pink stuff for fear of being labeled.
It’s currently not an issue, and it’s not going to be one for a long, long time. But it’s still a sort of double standard that will eventually need to be addressed if society progresses enough. Talking about it now is pointless, sure, but so is most stuff people do on the internet.
But then again, isn’t the difference only that a group has been oppressed and the other hasn’t?
I don’t really get this concept of “racial pride”. Alliance, brotherhood, any kind of cooperation between people who face the same struggles is clearly going to be stronger between groups who faced more hardships, but I feel like being “proud” of your skin color is just pointless.
Another commenter brought the example of Candace Owens, she’s black, but considering her actions does that mean anything at all?
“Let’s get there and then decide” is usually not a good way to tackle issues… but I guess it’s not up to us anyway to decide, unfortunately it looks like it’s going to take a long time before that becomes reality.
I’m honestly trying to look at stuff from the most neutral stance possible, but I guess being white in a region with 96% white people is bound to give me some bias, I’m sorry if that’s how I came off as.
That’s also why talking about this with someone I’m not intimate with is hard, they might feel like I have bad intentions and cut the discussion altogether.
Because that’s a logical flaw. “If black people and white people deserve the same rights, and black people can be proud of being black, why can’t white people be proud of being white?”
The difference between normal people and racists is that normal people might think of it as weird, but don’t talk about it because they don’t really care about “white pride”, while racists openly declare it and use the “fallacy” to stir the pot.
I still don’t see why something that rightly stopped being a source of shame should turn into a source of pride.
The circumstances of hetero and non-hetero people are vastly different and that’s obvious, but that doesn’t mean they should be “proud” of that. Saying you’re proud of something doesn’t make the people who discriminate you for it disappear.
No. I can’t imagine there’s a single person who has ever felt legitimately proud about being discriminated against in a manner you suggest.
Sure, I didn’t think that’s what they mean, but that’s what it feels like. If it’s not the same as “being proud of your culture”, what’s the other difference?
Proud of continuing the traditions of one’s ancestors so they aren’t permanently lost to historic racism or diluted in the modern melting pot, via artistic expression, etc, yes.
But again, that’s culture. Isn’t it better to say you’re proud of what you do, instead of what you are?
That’s because of the current situation though. People who say it now are like that, so “normal people” don’t say it because it would automatically mean being grouped with them. So only people who don’t care about being labeled as homo/transphobic keep saying that and the “stereotype” reinforces itself.
Or rather, as I said in my first comment, I don’t get why should anyone say they’re proud of being cishet, same as for being proud of the opposite. But we don’t think people in a gay pride parade are being “heterophobic”, it’s seen as a normal thing (by most reasonable people, I mean).
If we look at current society I get the difference in treatment, but from a neutral point of view it’s weird that virtually the same expression, just with sexualities swapped, is seen as either empowering or discriminating.
It’s correct to demand equality and apologies for what happened in the past, but beyond it isn’t that just “pride” in being/having been discriminated?
I would love to talk more about this with people who are directly involved in it, but even then, races/sexualities are not a monolith and that person I spoke to might have a completely different opinion from the rest. Plus I feel like you need to be very intimate with someone to have that kind of talk, so it’s not easy at all. I also comment my opinions on the internet because it’s a simple way of finding people who disagree and might give you a different point of view.
But why should rejecting shame automatically turn into pride? I’m not “proud” of every part of me that I’m not ashamed of.
Plus, it’s weird how the things are seen differently. “Queer pride” is usually seen as “sticking it to the homo/transphobes”, while someone saying they’re “proud of being cishet” sounds like they just hate LGBT people (and I mean, that’s probably correct). Why isn’t “proud of being gay” seen with the same acception?
It’s tied but it’s different. A lot of third+ generation immigrants have the same customs as locals, and you wouldn’t tell them apart if not for physical traits, for example.
It’s also weird how stuff that used to be shamed about turned to reasons of pride. We (as in, non-racist people) realized shaming people for their hair is stupid, why would being proud of it not be just as stupid?
The last point could be argued, most people say/mean “proud of being their friend/brother/whatever”, and having mutual esteem with someone does take a degree of agency. It’s obviously moot if you have family ties with them but they hate you, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen people being proud of achievements of people who hate them.
The rest I agree, it feels weird unnecessary tribalism most of the time.
That’s being proud of your culture though, not your race. Culture is something you willingly engage in, and you definitely have the right to be proud of it (and that includes Italian culture, Greek culture and all other types of white culture as well).
But race? Saying “I’m proud of being black” means nothing when American black people and African black people barely have anything in common that isn’t the color of their skin.
First and last link won’t open for me, but the middle two don’t seem to have anything about religion or “corporate cock sucking”. The guidelines are all very vague.
And honestly, you can’t effectively teach someone philosophy or critical thinking beyond what the cited librarian is doing (tell people to be skeptical, check sources and whatnot).
It could go wrong but I don’t really see anything that suggests it likely going wrong.
Looks like they aren’t teaching critical thinking only telling the kids what is “fake news”.
Based on what? The article says nothing about the details of its actual implementation and one of the examples is a librarian teaching reverse imaging and to look for sources. What brought you to that conclusion?
If there are people “trying to make LGBT a source of shame”, it means currently it isn’t.
You know what I meant and I know what you mean, but it’s not what I was talking about. If someone is proud of something they clearly aren’t ashamed of it, I was talking about civilized places, not red states where people can’t even wear pink stuff for fear of being labeled.