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418
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2 yr. ago

  • For real. This is so blatantly a play by Iran to drive a wedge between Israel and the Islamic nations it has recently been normalizing relations with - UAE, Bahrain, Sudan, Morocco... They were in talks with Saudi Arabia, and that would have been a bridge too far.

  • The US is a global, industrial empire. To maintain that position, we need to make sure threats to our influence are kept to a minimum, and we need to provide security to the global trade system that we and our allies benefit from. Israel is aligned with the West culturally and ideologically, and so it's a natural partner, and given its location in an oil-rich region, right next to the Suez Canal, and a stone's throw from or bordering several of our major global adversaries' proxies, it's a natural and necessary ally.

    Anything else, like the Evangelicals' bizarre obsession, is purely coincidence or post-facto.

  • The Romans created the diaspora in the first place. How relevant that is to the modern conflict is debatable. Zionists certainly use the ancient Jewish kingdoms as evidence of their legitimacy.

  • You may be right about Netanyahu & Likud, anyway, and I'm certainly not saying the Palestinians don't have every right to resist. I expect Israel's stated aim, to destroy Hamas, is an honest one. I expect Gaza will be returned to the Palestinians when that goal is achieved, because again, I don't see Israel as intentionally genocidal. I can't say I'm not concerned that my expectations won't be met, though.

  • The British did not partition Israel. A civil war between Zionist settlers and Palestinian Arabs broke out in the wake of the UN partition plan vote, the British noped out, the Zionists declared independence and fought & won a war against the Arab League.

  • I'm not assuming anything, I'm explaining that intent matters when considering whether genocide is happening. Hamas clearly has intent, Israel on the other hand? I'm willing to be convinced of course; certainly some officials have made genocidal statements, but I'm not aware of the official policy or stated aims of Israel being specifically genocidal the way Hamas is. Apartheid? Absolutely, and that's bad enough.

    Israel has attempted peace multiple times; I respect Arafat & the PLO for compromising and it's a shame what happened with that process. Hamas considers these efforts a "contradiction to its principles" and a "waste of time".

  • Let me quote some portions of the Hamas Covenant to you, and you tell me if you can find anything this insane in Israeli founding documents. Like it or not, Hamas has clearly stated its opposition to peace and its genocidal intent.

    Intent is the difference.

    Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will abolish it, just as it abolished others before it

    Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

    There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.

    [The Jews] were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.

    You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in it.

    [The Zionist invasion] relies greatly in its infiltration and espionage operations on the secret organizations it gave rise to, such as the Freemasons, The Rotary and Lions clubs, and other sabotage groups. All these organizations, whether secret or open, work in the interest of Zionism and according to its instructions. They aim at undermining societies, destroying values, corrupting consciences, deteriorating character and annihilating Islam. It is behind the drug trade and alcoholism in all its kinds so as to facilitate its control and expansion.

    Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Muslim people. “May the cowards never sleep.”

    It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror.

  • It seems like the airstrikes damaging the crossing is a more recent development that I wasn't aware of. Your CBC article and the CNN article posted above are only an hour old. Your Times of Israel article says this:

    The Rafah crossing was open for periods Tuesday morning, but Egypt only allowed through Palestinians who’d already gotten authorization to leave the Strip.

    On the Rafah crossing’s Facebook page, Gazans lamented the decision to not open the crossing for anyone wishing to leave, with one user writing: “Interior Ministry, this is not the time to put someone in danger who survived a bombing and miraculously reached the crossing. We cannot return to death.”

  • The inconvenient other half is that they have blocked EVERY possible exit from Gaza, including telling the Egyptians to not allow anyone out.

    Er... that's not true. They were initially telling Palestinians to go to Egypt. Egypt does not want them in the Sinai and told Israel to provide safe passage through Israel.

  • "Never again" is a phrase I learned in religious school as an American Jew, in the context of the contemporaneous genocides of WWI and WWII, and the genocides that were occurring in the 90s. I understand you're pointing out the hypocrisy of the Israeli government, but don't forget there are a lot of us out here who recognize genocide for what it is.

  • Don't call people morons when you're completely ignorant.

    In 1576, the Jewish community of Safed faced an expulsion order: 1,000 prosperous families were to be deported to Cyprus, "for the good of the said island", with another 500 the following year. The order was later rescinded due to the realisation of the financial gains of Jewish rental income. In 1586, the Jews of Istanbul agreed to build a fortified khan to provide a refuge for Safed's Jews against "night bandits and armed thieves."

    The 17th century saw a steep decline in the Jewish population of Palestine due to the unstable security situation, natural catastrophes, and abandonment of urban areas, which turned Palestine into a remote and desolate part of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman central government became feeble and corrupt, and the Jewish community was harassed by local rulers, janissaries, guilds, Bedouins, and bandits. The Jewish community was also caught between feuding local chieftains who extorted and oppressed the Jews. The Jewish communities of the Galilee heavily depended on the changing fortunes of a banking family close to the ruling pashas in Acre. As a result, the Jewish population significantly shrank.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hebron

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_riots

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine

    Edit - Folks, how is it controversial that this conflict extends further into the past than 1948?

  • Yes, this is a region that has been fought over since the dawn of human history. It's centered between the various cradles of human civilization - Sumeria, Egypt, and Greece, so it would have been a strategic location militarily and economically. Jaffa is a port that dates back to biblical times, and during the height of the Roman Empire, Judea would have been a vital trading post on the silk road. It's where monotheism began, so it holds great cultural significance as well. With the discovery of oil it became an indispensable ally for the industrialized world in a region destabilized by colonialism and the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It truly is a prize to be won, and has been for thousands of years.

    However, Israel is not a center of trade in the globalized economy under American hegemony, and perhaps as our dependence on oil wanes, its military/geopolitical significance will dissipate. The only remaining reason for conflict will be the Al Aqsa Mosque sitting atop the Jewish Temple Mount.

  • The Balfour Declaration was in 1917, and Britain began discussing support for the Zionist project in Palestine immediately after declaring war on the Ottoman Empire in 1914. The idea dates back to at least 1896 when Theodore Herzl proposed it as a solution to the "Jewish question" which, itself, was being asked as early as the 1750s.