There’s a lot of simmering anger, resentment and frustration in many communities in this country. It’s been building for years. The stabbing of those poor girls at their dance class by the son of Rwandan immigrants seems to have been the straw that broke the camel’s back.
This isn’t just the EDL (an organisation which disbanded more than a decade ago), this is thousands of English people who are furious. We can try and understand the sources of that fury, and then begin the work to resolve it, or we’ll keep getting these sorts of horrid outbreaks of ugly violence.
The arrogance and confidence with which people like you speak about antisemitism, despite having never learned anything about it or thought even a second about it in a critical way, is astounding.
You don't understand Holocaust denialism or antisemitism and yet here you are proclaiming your moral righteousness!
You can always find fringe groups. It's a bit pathetic to so openly signal that you know that's what you're doing. You've picked massively marginal, tiny and unimportant groups. It's really embarrassing for you man. I mean, really? Boston Review? C'mon man, grow up.
How many Jewish groups share your opinion that the Jews alone, among all the peoples of the world, have no right to national self-determination?
And I swear to fucking God if you add a Naturei Karta link, a group of less than 2,000 members globally, you will have problems.
Are you claiming that the Jewish governing party, made up of Jewish individuals, in the Jewish State (Israel) are incapable of holding back their bloodlust to slaughter non-Jewish children on the basis that they see them as lesser than Jewish children?
Take a moment. Think about it. Because we both know that this is in fact what you have been claiming. And maybe you want to walk that back, and self-reflect, and think whether maybe you've gone wrong at some point in your justifiable attempt to seek justice for oppressed peoples.
Antisemites have always believed this. This isn't new. The people who claimed Jews were intent on slaughtering non-Jewish children because they saw them as sub-human did also believe that wholeheartedly. It wasn't just a ruse.
You don't know many Jewish people and the others have chosen not to interact with you.
My guess is that you said and did nothing for your Jewish neighbours and classmates and colleagues and friends on October 8th. I'm guessing you also said nothing when crowds gathered outside Sydney Opera House to chant "gas the Jews".
Jews have an intuitive sense of who would help them if the Holocaust happened again. People who didn't speak out in those days? They went on the "don't rely on them to hide us in their basement" list.
https://lemmy.world/c/jewish doesn’t even appear in your screenshot for starters, so it’s obvious you’re not seeing a full list of results.
81 subscribers
Okay, cool, that's good to know.
What does /c/Jewish think about the idea of abolishing the State of Israel? Do they agree with you about antisemitism? Have you tried engaging with them about that?
But more importantly, Jewish people are under no obligation to make a Lemmy community and post about their religion, just as any one else isn’t. An absence of such community does not reflect an absence of followers.
It does in fact reflect an absence of followers. Jews do not feel welcome or safe among radical leftists, who tend to dominate Lemmy. They therefore stay away.
Also, here's a comparison:
You don't genuinely think that there's no problem here? Most Jews don't move from Reddit to Lemmy because Lemmy is dominated by left-wing people, and left-wing people are the current threat to Jews.
There are almost no Jews anywhere in the world who would oppose the existence of the State of Israel. As I just pointed out, an overwhelming majority of British and American Jews see Israel as a central part of their Jewish identity, have visited, have relatives there, and feel an emotional connection to it.
Naturei Karta are a tiny fringe minority. If you're thinking they represent some sort of larger phenomenon you're living in a bubble.
It is notoriously hard to find non-radicalized folks after repeatedly dropping bombs on their homes.
Sure. It was hard after WW2 with Germany and Japan. America literally nuked two Japanese cities, more or less wiping them from the map, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, many orders of times greater than have been killed in this defensive war by Israel.
But we managed to do it.
We did in fact succeed in both countries in deradicalising them and now they're both thriving democracies.
If that was genuinely Isreal’s aim they would be limiting their intervention to targeted strikes or utilizing the Palestinian social apparatus to try and secure custody of the most extreme Hamas members… they’d also be rabidly going after any Isreali settlers threatening the peace process.
This would only be true if you had literally zero clue about the extent of Hamas' physical embeddedness within the infrastructure of Gaza. They've had 17 years to turn the entire strip into a deathtrap. Particularly easy to do that when they don't care about Palestinian civilians. They're all just 'martyrs', as Haniyeh agreed.
Does Israel want a Palestinian state? No, not really. Especially not after October 7th. But it was willing to go along with that in the 1990s after the First Intifada made its point with dignity. In December 2000, they accepted President Clinton's offer to the Palestinians of a two-state solution, with a Palestinian state with a capital in East Jerusalem, some minor landswaps for the largest WB settlements, Palestinian airspace sovereignty, shared custody over the Temple Mount, etc.
The response was that Arafat walked away and launched the Second Intifada, a multi-year onslaught of wave after wave of suicide bombers, mass shootings, driving vehicles into crowds, bombing restaurants, and slaughtering schoolchildren. The Palestinians also had the distinction of inventing an entirely unprecedented form of terrorism: they pioneered the use of children as suicide bombers.
The Israeli left, which had pinned its colours to the 'land for peace' strategy which had worked with Egypt (Sinai) and Jordan, has never recovered from the Palestinian Second Intifada. The Intifada only ended when Israel created the walls and security checkpoints across and around the West Bank, the same thing which Palestinians today so hate. Well, guess what, maybe you should have made better choices..
So does Israel today want a Palestinian state? No. Why would they? They offered one in 2000 and got wave after wave of suicide bombers. They pulled out of Gaza unilaterally in 2005 and gave the Palestinians a democratic election. They elected Hamas, which culminated in October 7th, the single worst slaughter of Jews since the Holocaust. You've got the West Bank where the PA and UNRWA teach children how to count and do geometry by talking about firing rockets at Tel Aviv.
In a future scenario where the Palestinians were willing to live in peace next to Israel? Many Israelis would still say yes. But nobody in Israel thinks that's ever going to be the actual scenario, and if they did then October 7th more or less decided that one for them.
Even naming it—that is, calling out bigotry against Jews—can be classed as yet another sign of assumed evil intent, of Jews attacking beloved principles of justice for all. In an April 2023 lecture, David Nirenberg, the historian, presented the example of an activist with a large following whose boundary-pushing rhetoric met with accusations of anti-Semitism. The activist pointed out, as Nirenberg put it, that anti-Semitism “was merely an accusation that Jews used to silence criticism and squash free speech.” He brought libel lawsuits against newspapers that accused him of anti-Semitism, and won them. It is unfortunate for those making this argument today that this activist was named Adolf Hitler.
None of this is new. Jews have seen all of this before.
Israel Is not Jewish people, many Jews outright hate the state.
No, they don't. 88% of British Jews have been to Israel at least once, and 73% say that they feel very or somewhat attached to the country. Eight-in-ten U.S. Jews say caring about Israel is an essential or important part of what being Jewish means to them. Nearly six-in-ten say they personally feel an emotional attachment to Israel, and a similar share say they follow news about the Jewish state at least somewhat closely. There aren't any longer sizeable Jewish populations outside of the English-speaking or Hebrew-speaking world to compare with, they were all killed or expelled in the last century. The lesson of the 20th century to the Jews was that you either spoke English or Hebrew or you died.
You can freely attack and criticise Israel without it being a reflection on Jewish people.
Depends on the criticism.
The only person who would think otherwise is an actual antisemite.
One of them was a far-right lunatic, but the man who assassinated David Amess was a London-born radicalised Muslim affiliated with ISIL