SorteKanin @ SorteKanin @feddit.dk

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15

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1,646

Joined

2 yr. ago

I couldn't agree more and I see it everywhere as well. It's systemic.

Which would you choose based on their website?

Problem is, people on Lemmy are techies who might actually prefer the Gimp site. But any "normal" person would not.

Måske det hjælper hvis man skifter til dansk, så vi ikke bliver forvirret af sprogbrugen :)

Som @meldrik@lemmy.wtf siger så er fediverset decentraliseret - det vil sige at i stedet for at der kun er en udbyder (fx Reddit), så er der mange udbydere af sociale medier som hænger sammen. Man plejer at kalde hver udbyder en "instans", altså Feddit.dk er en instans, lemmy.world er en anden instans. Så man vælger en udbyder/instans, ligesom man vælger om man går i Netto eller Rema (selvom de jo tit har de samme ting).

Mastodon fungerer på samme måde, dvs. der er mange instanser der kører Mastodon-softwaren som alle hænger sammen. Faktisk hænger Mastodon og Lemmy også sammen, da de bruger samme underliggende protokol. Det er der hvor det bliver rigtig fedt for så kan man begynde at skrive fra Mastodon til Lemmy eller den anden vej. Det ville svare til at skrive fra Twitter til Reddit eller den anden vej, noget man aldrig kunne forestille sig i de traditionelle kommercielle sociale medier.

Jeg forstår godt at meget af det her er anderledes end hvordan de traditionelle centraliserede sociale medier virker, og jeg er sikker på du ikke er den eneste der er forvirret. Jeg tror faktisk det ville være rigtig fint hvis du stillede dine spørgsmål og forundringer som et indlæg i !spoergsmaal_og_svar@feddit.dk, så kunne andre på Feddit.dk også måske få glæde af forklaringerne :)

Ableskievers

Where are you from? I didn't realize anyone outside Denmark or maybe some nordic countries made these. :)

You can make your own alternatives, that's the difference. If you think the mods/admins of those comms/instances aren't doing well, then you could do better yourself. That's the freedom that the fediverse gives you. You could not do the same on Reddit.

Not sure about that one but the following one:

In each language, the words for yes and no never change, regardless of which question they are answering.

This happens in Danish actually. Example:

Kan du lide is? (Do you like ice cream?)
\ Ja
\ Kan du ikke lide is? (Do you not like ice cream?)
\ Jo

So in Danish we have "ja" which means "yes" but "jo" is used instead when answering a negative question, so as to confirm what the negative question asked. This is kind of annoying in English cause if you ask "Do you not like ice cream?" then if you say "yes" does that mean "yes I like ice cream" or does it mean "yes I do not like ice cream"? That's what "jo" disambiguates.

There’s also a link to Matrix, which I’m guessing is the preferred way to jump in and ask questions about how to contribute.

Yes but asking directly instead of consuming already-written guidelines is a much higher psychological hill to climb and doesn't feel welcoming. You need to be very passionate to go to Matrix. Also, frankly speaking, UX people are very unlikely to have a user on Matrix or even know what it is or how it works. Developers on the other hand can easily figure this out. You need to be mindful of tech literacy when you're trying to cater to UX people - they won't know anything about Matrix probably.

In general, I recommend coming with the intention of being assigned work

I don't think that's bad, but for developers this is very easy with all the guidelines and the "good first issues" and all that. For UX people, none of these resources exist.

Where would you naturally look for this? With developers it’s easy, you look for “CONTRIBUTING.md” or similar in the repo, as well as hints from templates in issues and PRs. Some will have extensive style guides and whatnot, but most are pretty bare bones.

Should this go on the main website? Somewhere at the start of the technical docs? In the repo in a special place linked from the root?

At the very least this could be in the contributing guidelines on GitHub, but I think having it on the main website (a place much more familiar and friendly to non-technical people) is much better.

What about tooling? Should projects set up something like penpot (found after a search for FOSS Figma)? Or are designers okay with images on a wiki or something? Is it reasonable to ask them to submit a GitHub issue and engage that way (they could link to something else)?

I don't know, I'm not a UX person. Ask them when they arrive. But I would think they can probably figure out to interact on GitHub issues if directed to do so. Developers intuitively know "Oh I want to contribute so I'll need a GitHub account and then need to go look at issues" but UX people don't know this.

To me, linking a chat and the repo is enough, but maybe it’s not.

I definitely don't think that's enough - UX people probably don't even know what a "repo" is.

What do you mean by “invite”? What would that look like?

I don't mean a literal invite - I mean that projects are rarely inviting for product managers and designer (let's call them "UX people") and rarely do they encourage those people to contribute.

Let's take a look at Lemmy as an example (and please don't misunderstand, this is not to bash Lemmy specifically, this happens for so many FOSS projects). Let's put ourselves in the shoes of a UX person who wants to contribute to Lemmy. How would I (the imaginary UX person) do that?

Well, on join-lemmy.org there's not really any links to anything to do with contributing but there is a link to "GitHub" in the contact information. As a UX person, I may have a vague idea what git and GitHub is, but obviously that's not a tool that I use. So then I land on the git repository on GitHub. Oh great, there's a "Contributing" section! It says:

Read the following documentation to setup the development environment and start coding

Oh. So that's contributing code and stuff. So that's not me. But okay since there's nothing else, let's try and go to the contributing guidelines anyway. But this just gives a technical overview of the different software components of Lemmy, and then goes into how to setup local development. This is all mumbo-jumbo to me, I know nothing about coding, I am a UX person.

My point is (and again, Lemmy is just an example here), none of these contributing guidelines are helpful unless you are a developer, and the fact that the contributing guidelines only caters to developers makes any UX person feel out of place, as if their expertise is not wanted or needed. This is what I mean when I say it is not very inviting to UX people. It is very inviting to developers though.

That’s how it should work for design as well. Contribute some designs that you think will improve the UX and if they’re desirable, someone will take up implementing them. If it’s easy (e.g. a new logo), it’ll get done right away, and if it’s more involved, it’ll get done as devs get time.

I agree! But how are designers supposed to know where to even start? There are "good first issues", but those are also only for developers. Where's the contributing guidelines for non-developers? You say "Designers and product managers are certainly welcome", but this doesn't look that welcoming to me!

My perspective of designers and product managers is that they like to own projects.

I think this is a bit of a mischaracterization. I don't think a product manager has to "own" the project to help and be valuable to a project.

One project that does this quite well is bevy. See this video from one of the product manager contributors to bevy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3PJaiSpbmc

people good at UX don’t seem to care as much about FOSS and the open web

I'm not sure this is true - at least I have an alternative explanation.

People who do the UX design and all that are rarely invited into the process. Open source projects often look for "maintainers" but this almost exclusively means "developers".

There's documentation and contributing guidelines for developers. Where is the same material for product managers or designers?

We don't get product managers and designers in FOSS because they've never been invited.

The major platforms are convenient.

But the open web offers something better: genuine ownership, community governance, and independence.

This has a kind of underlying connotation that the open web can't be convenient. This is not true.

It is true that lots of platforms on the fediverse (Lemmy included) don't have the best user experience and user journey flow. But that's not how it has to be. We don't have to accept that as a given.

It's the same problem that Linux faces, where UX issues aren't prioritised because the user base is technical enough to deal with the bullshit. We can't let the same thing occur to the fediverse.

On the other hand, there's probably also almost no reason to upvote it. OP will see it, there's no need for it to be the top comment.

Very nice thoughts! I think you're right that organically convincing people IRL is most effective, but getting people over online from Reddit and Facebook is also a part of the solution I think. But definitely not the whole solution.

Tbf the flat buttonless style makes them really easy to clean.

Some people are trying: https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird

Wouldn’t it just take one bad actor to start spamming all the other instances with nonsence?

In principle yes, one bad actor could start spamming a lot. But they usually get banned pretty quickly.

If you deferate with the instance the bots are coming from they can just open another, right? Like a DDOS attack

Well, you'd need a new domain so at least you're forcing the spammer to spend money on a new domain, which probably breaks most of these attempts. Also if the spammers are really bad or posting illegal stuff and they're registering domains, you could maybe report them to their domain registrar and possibly get them to shut them out or maybe even get law enforcement involved to figure out who registered the domains.

As a last resort, you could go to allowlist federation, where you are by default not federated with an unknown domain.

Tuta takes like 48 hours to respons, slower than Proton who takes about 12-24 hours, but as long as the response is under 1 week, its fine by me.

Are you talking about support request response time here? Or what response time?

Good meme but had to downvote because this has nothing to do with the fediverse.

Very well laid out. Biggest problem is that the people watching his channel are probably likely to already understand the problem. Certainly almost everyone here understands the problem. Preaching to the choir and all that.

Hopefully we can get more people to see it as an issue in the future.

You're doing your part :)

I may have used Facebook as a bit of a provocative example here... But even on Facebook, there are certain groups that could enjoy the fediverse.

The fediverse should be for everyone.

Bluesky is not truly decentralized, in the same way that Mastodon is. Bluesky is effectively centralized and is still controlled by an american corporation and could in principle be bought in the same way that Twitter was. Lastly, Bluesky made their own protocol instead of using the already-standard ActivityPub protocol. That's why a lot of people are skeptical and recommend Mastodon instead.