💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @ SmartmanApps @programming.dev

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Those rules are based on axioms

Nope! The order of operations rules come from the proof of the definitions in the first place. 3x4=3+3+3+3 by definition, therefore if you don't do the multiplication first in 2+3x4 you get a wrong answer (having changed the multiplicand).

As far as I know statements are pretty common

And yet you've not been able to quote a Maths textbook using that word.

are a foundational part of all math

Expressions are.

It’s not really a yes or no thing

It's really a no thing.

And again laws are created using statements

Not the Laws of Maths. e.g. The Distributive Law is expressed with the identity a(b+c)=(ab+ac). An identity is a special type of equation. We have...

Numerals

Pronumerals

Expressions

Equations (or Formula)

Identities

No statements. Everything is precisely defined in Maths, everything has one meaning only.

I’ve seen many of his videos and haven’t noticed any obvious errors.

He makes mistakes every time there's Brackets with a Coefficient. He always does a(b)=axb, instead of a(b)=(axb), hence wrong every time it follows a division.

what you reference to as “1917,”

No, he calls it that, though sometimes he also tries to claim it's an article (it isn't - it was a letter) - he never refers to Lennes by name. He also ignores what it actually says, and in fact disobeys it (the rule proposed by Lennes was to do all multiplication first, and yet he proceeds to do the division first, hence wrong answer, even though he just claimed that 1917 is the current rule).

Here's a thread about Lennes' 1917 letter, including a link to an archived copy of it.

Here's where Presh Talwalker lied about 1917

Here's a thread about The Distributive Law

Here's where Presh Talwalker disobeyed The Distributive Law (one of many times) (he does 2x3 instead of (2x3), hence gets the wrong answer). What he says is the "historical" rule in "some" textbooks, is still the rule and is used in all textbooks, he just never looked in any!

Note that, as far as I can tell, he doesn't even have any Maths qualifications. He keeps saying "I studied Maths at Harvard", and yet I can find no evidence whatsoever of what qualifications he has - I suspect he dropped out, hence why he keeps saying "I studied...". In one video he even claimed his answer was right because Google said so. I'm not kidding! He's a snake oil salesman, making money from spreading disinformation on Youtube - avoid at all cost. There are many freely-available Maths textbooks on the Internet Archive if you want to find proof of the truth (some of which have been quoted in the aforementioned thread).

Can you explain how that is? Like with an example?

I'm not sure what you're asking about. Explain what with an example?

Math is exactly like English. It’s a language

No it isn't. It's a tool for calculating things, with syntax rules. We even have rules around how to say it when speaking.

It’s an abstraction to describe something

And that something is the Laws of the Universe. 1+1=2, F=ma, etc.

Hell the word statement is used in math and English for a reason

You won't find the word "statement" used in Maths textbooks. I'm guessing you're referring to Expressions.

But +, -, *, and / are all binary operators?

No, only multiply and divide are. 2+3 is really +2+3, but we don't write the first plus usually (on the other hand we do always write the minus if it starts with one).

As far as I know, the only reason multiplication and division come first is that we’ve all agreed to it.

No, they come first because you get wrong answers if you don't do them first. e.g. 2+3x4=14, not 20. All the rules of Maths exist to make sure you get correct answers. Multiplication is defined as repeated addition - 3x4=3+3+3+3 - hence wrong answers if you do the addition first (just changed the multiplicand, and hence the answer). Ditto for exponents, which are defined as repeated multiplication, a^{2=(axa). Order of operations is the process of reducing everything down to adds and subtracts on a number line. 3}2=3x3=3+3+3

I’m defining the division operation, not the quotient

Yep, the quotient is the result of Division. It's right there in the definition in Euler. Dividend / Divisor = Quotient <= no reference to multiplication anywhere

Yes, the quotient is obtained by dividing… Now define dividing.

You not able to read the direct quote from Euler defining Division? Doesn't mention Multiplication at all.

The actual is the one I gave

No, you gave an alternative (and also you gave no citation for it anyway - just something you made up by the look of it). The actual definition is in Euler.

That’s why I said they are also defined based on a multiplication

Again, emphasis on "alternative", not actual.

implying the non-alternative one (understand, the actual one) was the one I gave

The one you gave bears no resemblance at all to what is in Euler, nor was given with a citation.

Feel free to send your entire Euler document rather than screenshotting the one part

The name of the PDF is in the top-left. Not too observant I see

you thought makes you right

That's the one and only actual definition of Division. Not sure what you think is in the rest of the book, but he doesn't spend the whole time talking about Division, but feel free to go ahead and download the whole thing and read it from cover to cover to be sure! 😂

Note, by the way, that Euler isn’t the only mathematician who contributed to the modern definitions in algebra and arithmetics.

And none of the definitions you have given have come from a Mathematician. Saying "most professions", and the lack of a citation, was a dead giveaway! 😂

Yes, it is

No it isn't.

The division of a by b in the set of real numbers and the set of rational numbers (which are, de facto, the default sets used in most professions) is defined as the multiplication of a by the multiplicative inverse of b

No it isn't. The Quotient is defined as the number obtained when you divide the Dividend by the Divisor. Here it is straight out of Euler...

Alternative definitions are also based on a multiplication

Emphasis on "alternative", not actual.

÷ could be a minus sign

No it couldn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_sign?wprov=sfla1

Did you check the reference? It says % can be used as a minus sign, not the obelus. Welcome to what happens when you're next-door neighbour Joe Blow can edit Wikipedia.

Another common issue is thinking “parentheses go first”

There's no "think" - it's an absolute rule.

then beginning by solving the operation beside them

a(b) isn't an operation - it's a Product. a(b)=(axb) per The Distributive Law.

(mostly multiplication)

NOT Multiplication, a Product/Term.

The point being that what’s inside the parentheses goes first, not what’s beside them

Nope, it's the WHOLE Bracketed Term. a/bxc=ac/b, but a/b( c )=a/(bxc). Inside is only a "rule" in Elementary School, when there isn't ANYTHING next to them (students aren't taught this until High School, in Algebra), and it's not even really a rule then, it's just that there isn't anything ELSE involved in the Brackets step than what is inside (since they're never given anything on the outside).

Oh, but of course the statement changes if you add parentheses

It sure does, but they don't seem to understand that.

Except it does matter

No it doesn't. You disobeying the rules and getting lots of wrong answers in your examples doesn't change that.

I left some examples for another post with multiplication and division

Which you did wrong.

I’ll give you some addition and subtraction to see order matter with those operations as well

And I'll show you it doesn't matter when you do it correctly

Subtraction first: 1 + (2 - 3) + 4 1 + (-1) + 4 = 4

Nope. Right answer for wrong reason - you only co-incidentally got the answer right. -3+1+2+4=-3+7=4

Right to left: 1 + (2 - (3 + 4)) 1 + (2 - 7) 1 + (-5) = -4

Nope. 4-3+2+1=1+2+1=3+1=4

Edit: You can argue that, for example, the addition first could be (1 + 2) + (-3 + 4)

Or you could just do it correctly in the first place, always obeying Left Associativity and never adding Brackets

in my opinion that’s another ambiguous case

There aren't ANY ambiguous cases. In every case it's equal to 4. If you didn't get 4, then you made a mistake and got a wrong answer.

Addition first: 9-4=5

Nope. Addition first is 9+3-1=12-1=11. You did 9-(1+3), incorrectly adding brackets and changing the answer (thus a wrong answer)

The solution accepted anywhere but in the US school system range from “Bloody use parenthesis, then” over “Why is there more than one division in this formula why didn’t you re-arrange everything to be less confusing” to “50 Hertz, in base units, are 50s-1”.

No, the solution is learn the rules of Maths. You can find them in Maths textbooks, even in U.S. Maths textbooks.

so no actual mathematician, or other people using maths in earnest, use that kind of notation.

Yes we do, and it's what we teach students to do.

It’s so we don’t have to spam brackets everywhere

No it isn't. The order of operations rules were around for several centuries before we even started using Brackets in Maths.

((((((9+2)-1)+6)-4)+7)-3)+5

It was literally never written like that

we only need parentheses when we want to deviate from the norm

That has always been the case

100% with you. “Left to right” as far as I can tell only exists to make otherwise “unsolvable” problems a kind of official solution

It's not a rule, it's a convention, and it exists so as to avoid making mistakes with signs, mistakes you made in almost every example you gave where you disobeyed left to right.

until the ambiguity is removed

There isn't any ambiguity.

all those answers are correct

No, only 1 answer is correct, and all the others are wrong.

Until the author gives me clarity then that sentence has multiple meanings. With math

Maths isn't English and doesn't have multiple meanings. It has rules. Obey the rules and you always get the right answer.

it doesn’t click for people that the equation is incomplete.

It isn't incomplete.

I stand corrected

No, you weren't. Most of their answers were wrong. You were right. See my reply. 4 is the only correct answer, and if you don't get 4 then you did something wrong, as they did repeatedly (kept adding brackets and thus changing the Associativity).

Right to left:

6 * (4 / (2 * (3 / 9)))

Nope! 6 × 4 ÷ 2 × 3 ÷ 9 =4 right to left is 6 ÷ 9 x 3 ÷ 2 × 4 =4. You disobeyed the rule of Left Associativity, and your answer is wrong

Multiplication first: (6 * 4) / (2 * 3) / 9

Also nope. Multiplication first is 6 x 4 x 3 ÷ 2 ÷ 9 =4

Left first: (24 / 6) / 9

Still nope. 6 × 4 x 3 ÷ 2 ÷ 9 =4

Right side first: 24 / (6 / 9)

Still nope. 6 × 4 x 3 ÷ 9 ÷ 2 =4

And finally division first: 6 * (4 / 2) * (3 / 9)

And finally still nope. 6 ÷ 9 ÷ 2 x 4 x 3 =4

Hint: note that I never once added any brackets. You did, hence your multiple wrong answers.

It’s ambiguous which one of these is correct

No it isn't. Only 4 is correct, as I have just shown repeatedly.

Hence the best method we have for “correct” is left to right

It's because students don't make mistakes with signs if you don't change the order. I just showed you can still get the correct answer with different orders, but you have to make sure you obey Left Associativity at every step.

The issue normally with these “trick” questions

There's no "trick" - it's a straight-out test of Maths knowledge.

the ambiguous nature of that division sign

Nothing ambiguous about it. The Term of the left divided by the Term on the right.

A common mistake is to think division is prioritised above multiplication

It's not a mistake. You can do them in any order you want.

when it actually has the same priority

Which means you can do them in any order

So order of operations is hard?

Not for students it isn't. Adults who've forgotten the rules on the other hand...

Hey, this is Presh Talwalkar

Person who has forgotten about The Distributive Law and lied about 1917.

Discussion of a brief history of this viral math problem

Including lying about 1917

Ultimately followed by brief discussion on the order of operations

But forgets about Terms and The Distributive Law.

And that’s the answer

Now watch his other ones, where he screws it up royally. Dude has no idea how to handle brackets. Should be avoided at all costs.