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  • Can we at least agree its is right for us to allow them maximal spiritual growth before sending them on their way? Prison reform would be a very multifaceted thing beyond my intelligence alone to think up.

    My belief is your death conditions are correlated to your birth conditions (karma). This is a very common worldly belief mind you. That said, we all want a future with peace and love, and letting people die in fear and anguish will only allow their future conditions to bring that fear and anguish back. I know not everyone will believe this but I swear its worth exploring.

  • Lets explore how we got to different places.

    We know things three ways I see. We know how to breath by just "knowing" like a bird knows to make a nest. We know by "experience" like touching a hot stove will burn. We know by "reasoning" such as this other thing cooks and looks hot it will burn me too.

    Your experience of seeing monsters lead you to reason there is no value or redemption. Is this correct Call out if I'm wrong...

    My knowing comes from just knowing which was cultivated through spiritual pursuits amd mediation. I could try and further explain but I'd need to present full Buddhist perspective.

    Very different knowledge we have. It would be hard to talk on this issue, none of my spiritual explanations couldn't find soil in your non spiritual framework and I've not experienced monsters like you and hence lack experience to relate well.

  • Do you have any spiritual framework you draw this from? Where did you learn that there are things to which a sentient being can not come back from? I understand we have different perspectives now I'd like to see what our differing principals or values may be that allow us different thoughts.

  • Agreed. Here is a relevant Marcus Quote for this disccussion " You should bear in mind constantly that death has come to men* of all kinds, men with varied occupations and various ethnicities… We too will inevitably end up where so many [of our heroes] have gone… Heraclitus, Pythagoras, Socrates… brilliant intellectuals, high-minded men, hard workers, men of ingenuity, self-confident men, men… who mocked the very transience and impermanence of human life…. men… long dead and buried… Only one thing is important: to behave throughout your life toward the liars and crooks around you with kindness, honesty, and justice. "

    People here could argue that Justice is death for a death but that is a perspective worth arguing over I feel.

  • I am sorry for your story that is horrible. I have not had to deal with things like this and can't say with certainty how I'd react; so I'll let you to your opinion un-judged by me. I will consider your story in my perspective when I meditate on such things Chainweasel, honestly...

    I do believe all peace is interconnected like a web, and even if you have 1 million murderers locked up forever, if they themselves don't have access to any peace or spiritual growth they will effect all of us, we are more than physical bodies and minds, we are sensitive emotional creatures.

  • I dream of a future where we don't end people's lives, no matter what they've done. I believe that using the death penalty as a way to scare people into behaving ignores the real reasons why people do bad things in the first place. I also think that there are some people who, because of the way their brain works, can't be stopped by fear of punishment.

    Looking at what Jesus, Buddha, or great thinkers like Marcus Aurelius said, they all teach us to be kind and understand that everyone deserves respect, even those who might seem broken or lost. To me, it feels wrong to use someone as a warning to others because it forgets that every person has value.

    This is just how I see things, based on what I believe and what matters to me. I know it's a big, complicated topic, and not everyone will see it the same way.

  • I like seeing the multi color rainbow from all the replies... I'll pitch in... we should all have UNLIMITED RESPONSIBILITY. OUR ABILITY TO RESPOND SHOULD BE LIMITLESS. As soon as we say something isn't our responsibility our ability to respond dissappears. So as you say still recycle but every thing you do to help let it galvanize you to purchase less overall. This world is fucked by consumption and chasing desires and if we buy less they lose. That's just my perspective I know it won't sit with all. Humans are spiritual beings sent here to spiritualy grow not materlisiticaly buy.