SCB @ SCB @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

Disagreeing with someone saying there is a genocide happening, when there is indeed one happening

That's your mistake.

So two ministers of the actual israelian governement are now “two random dudes”.

Yes, just like MYG, a literal representative, is not indicative of US policy.

Ah well then definitely no.

Dude there is a universe worth of difference between eating at a restaurant and being asked to tip like, a good truck or some shit.

Baristas post on their social media about giving non-tippers decaf all the time.

I'm completely unaware of this, and this is stupid.

You tip people who live on tips for a living, and in places of high, but not elite, quality.

The core group against Israel, always, is the Muslim bloc and I was stoned and didn't click your link.

I own that. My bad dude.

Hamas was literally formed as a reaction to the continued illegal occupation of Palestinian territories

Hamas was literally formed because the Palestinian government was becoming too secular and was too interested in peace with Israel.

Here is an interview, with quotes, and details, with a literal expert on th subject who is also Pro-Palestinian.

How Hamas got elected:

KEAR: The key Fatah people - most of Fatah are living in the diaspora. They're the ones living in the four-story houses, driving around in their gold Mercedes. They're not experiencing the day-to-day privations of the occupation, whereas Hamas - they're a product of the occupation. You can see them walking in the streets. You can see them at the market. People may not necessarily agree with their narrative, with the - as an Islamist movement. They get a lot of respect for the fact that they live amongst the community.

ARABLOUEI: As the first intifada went on, many Palestinians became more and more frustrated not only with the occupation but with the PLO/Fatah as it attempted to negotiate a two-state solution with Israel.

ELGINDY: The reality was that Fatah and some of the smaller parties were interested in joining a peace process that would result in a compromise situation of a West Bank and Gaza state.

KEAR: And certainly by this stage, 1987, 20 years of occupation - what have the PLO done? When I say PLO, what has Fatah done? Nothing, virtually. We've been fighting for 20 years, resisting for 20 years. Nothing has changed. In fact, it's actually gotten worse, where we are further away from an independent state than we've ever been before.

Israel did not become aggressive to Hamas until after they began terrorist activities.

BACONI: "Hamas Contained: The Rise And Pacification Of Palestinian Resistance." When Hamas was established out of that structure and it began to engage in resistance activities...

ARABLOUEI: Like attacks on military posts and abducting Israeli soldiers.

BACONI: ...Immediately, Israel's approach to dealing with Hamas changed, and it stopped being one of approval. It started being an antagonistic relationship because obviously now it's a resistance party.

HACHAM: In retrospective, I think this was - I call it the original sin of the Israeli authorities - Israeli security authorities that did not understand that period of time what can be developed of this innocent organization movement, al-Mujama al-Islamiya.

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1198908227#:~:text=ARABLOUEI%3A%20So%20Sheikh%20Yassin%20and,Islamist%20ideology%20created%20the%20organization.

This frustration and aggression is also detailed in the original Hamas charter

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

You don't have to agree with Israel's government, response, or how this war is being prosecuted, to understand that

1: Hamas is an islamic terror organization that usurped a government and denies democracy to millions

2: Hamas cannot and will not back down, because Jihad is their sole purpose for existing

3: A two state solution was one-track, and is always infinitely more possible with any other Palestinian leadership.

Support for Hamas is always wrong. Gazans who support Hamas today are wrong, but they do not deserve to be killed or to suffer as they have been.

I firmly believe everyone even emotionally aligning with Hamas has some very serious issues. I never condoned the killing of any civilian, and never will.

Disgust with Hamas's atrocities does not imply that I support the deaths of civilians in any way.

Hamas has no interest in governing responsibly.

You may want to look up what Hamas did to the opposition party, but I doubt you'll be swayed, because what you believe is pure propaganda.

I cannot believe you can excuse terrorism in your mind so easily. Support for Palestinians in no way implies you need to support Hamas.

Opinion is irrelevant against facts: they are trying to expell the palestinian population from Gaza

This is not accurate, as easily understood by how poorly they would be accomplishing this objective, were it true. They have absolute military superiority and it would be easy for them to achieve that goal.

they even said it out loud two days ago.

This is not accurate. Some random guy that works for the government, saying something which may or may not translate accurately (see the thread here on lemmy for that discussion), is not significant. MTG, a sitting US Representative, talking about Jewish Space Lasers is also not significant, for similar reasons.

These misconceptions, even if they were true, do not excuse supporting Hamas.

This is all geopolitical consideration, which is valuable, but generally not impactful in a campaign.

Not particularly, no. Something to the tune of 2-3 million people volunteered for the Biden campaign in 2020

I believe you are posting in the wrong thread, my dude.

This is about a woman with a green card knowingly breaking federal law and then losing her green card

I would imagine any group of people who are experiencing a genocide

Hamas took over the country in 2007, after Israel had left Gaza. They then promptly canceled elections forever, declared Jihad, and began torturing dissidents to death.

They have not only actively fought a 2-state solution and secularization, but have opposed Israel normalizing relations with neighbors, because their goal is the eradication of Israel.

Moreover, Hamas has stolen aid money, impeded and corrupted aid groups, and restricted access to medical supplies and food to solidify their own power.

There is no defense for Hamas, and referring to them as a "resistance group" is both inherently dishonest and empowering to the terror organization.

This discussion is not and has never been about Gazan's - this discussion is about OP calling them a "resistance group with some radical elements" which they are not.

I definitely understood, yes. Hamas is not a "resistance org", and they don't have a "few extremists". Every member of Hamas is an extremist who is willing to torture and murder Palestinians who challenge them.

https://www.newsweek.com/hamas-tortured-me-dissent-heres-what-they-really-think-palestinians-opinion-1857169

That is not a resistance group. They are all extremists, by definition, because Hamas is a Jihadist Islamist group, even if you take Israel completely off the table.

In their own words:

“Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes,” Hamas said in its first statement in the late 1980s.

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas

Support for the Palestinian people neither requires, nor implies, support for Hamas, and support for Hamas is, definitionally, not support for the Palestinian people.

Yes, that's why I think you'd prefer Hexbear. You want to self-isolate, and there's nothing wrong with that. Go nuts man. Live the dream.

17 people is not a significant portion of his campaign staff, and the campaign hasn't even mobilized for staffing heavily yet.

Engagement is going to be down in '24

I highly doubt this.

It isn't a literal genocide, but a figurative one, which is the source of the disagreement.

0.0044% of Gazans have been killed. The US killed the same net amount of civilians during the Battle of Mosul, and Gaza is three times as dense as Mosul.

This number will go up, because this war is being brutally waged, and Israel does deserve criticism for it. But words matter, and genocide is a dumb word to use because it has actual meanings, and requires specific intent

If you want to see any of your political goals come to fruition, volunteering is by far the best way to do that.

Volunteer for local campaigns often. Participate heavily. Consider becoming a citizen lobbyist.

I love the work I do for Citizens Climate Lobby, for instance.

https://citizensclimatelobby.org/

Just so we're clear, the source for this article is an anonymous post to Medium that claims to be from 17 staffers.

This is not "news"

https://medium.com/@BidenHQforCeasefireNow/dear-president-biden-we-need-a-ceasefire-now-f48b732b2433