PoliticalAgitator @ PoliticalAgitator @lemm.ee

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2 yr. ago

The left doesn't need "marketing" to appreciate the value of modern-day weaponry - all we need for that is a proper understanding of the right and their liberal allies.

The gun laws you're advocating armed this shithead and thousands of others like him.

He deliberately targeted minorities and legal gun owners did nothing to prevent it and will do nothing to prevent it happening again, because the only solutions they support are the ones that just happen to be most profitable to the gun lobby.

I wonder why they couldn't just lynch Fred Hampton on the sidewalk like they did with George Floyd - it's a complete mystery to me.

Your guns saved neither of those people but sure, tell us how George Floyd would have gone done in your little gun utopia.

Should George have shot the cops? He'd still be dead, only now the people who wanted to kill him would be walking free.

Should a passerby have shot the cops? They'd be dead instead of (or as well as) George and once again, the cops would be walking free, probably with an even bigger budget.

Your bullshit "lets just shoot our problems" doesn't help anybody except the far-right and the gun lobby.

You've done fuck all to create actual reforms, you just advocate other people sacrifice their lives.

Riiiight... because the fascists have always required an excuse to perpetrate mass-murder on people they consider "other," correct?

If you're so convinced you have the solution to systemic violence and oppression, go out and shoot the county better. We're all waiting for you to make all this violence worth it, like you promise you will and have been promising you will for 20 years.

Until then, you're only aiding scumbags and can stick your guns down your piss hole.

Whatever helps you spoon your guns to sleep at night.

Okay, who are you shooting then?

Aww, don't be shy, tell us what his motivations were. It was to keep us safe from tyranny right?

Nope, he was concerned Congress couldn't be relied on to arm the militas they used for slave control. He wasn't even shy about it. Is this something that's still important to you? How many school shootings would you say its worth?

Of course, he also spoke of how "An armed and trained militia is the firmest bulwark of republics", so I guess you've only got a small pool of quotes to choose from where he doesn't undermine your case.

But hey, if "well regulated" means "able to murder unarmed black people", the pro-gun community really has built a well regulated militia, because some far-right fuckstain does that almost every month.

Edit: Oh look, here's a well regulated militia now.

A clear majority of citizens support universal background checks, but all that matters is that the gun lobby doesn't.

Yeah they're not going to fall for "standing up to us makes us stronger so you should stop", nor "this is why 5 year olds need guns". You're just another gun owner living in a fantasy world.

They're fully aware of who is responsible for arming school shooters and exactly those people respond to being told "you need to stop arming school shooters".

This is nothing more then a marketing campaign by the gun lobby to sell bullshit hero fantasies to left wing people too.

"The pig" killed 34 members of the Black Panther Party, including outright assassinations.

When the full details of the FBI involvment was revealed, the director of the agency issued a public apology for "wrongful use of power" and exactly 0 members of the pro-gun community used their guns to overthrow a government running projects like COINTELPRO.

The BPP being armed didn't just fail to deliver on everything you're promising, it provided all the justification the state needed to abuse and murder them -- an excuse police still use to this day.

I love seeing this argument because nothing makes it clearer that your views aren't the product of any kind of critical thought, you've just been handed an excuse to keep doing what you want and you've accepted it with no further questions.

Because even if we just let you have "well regulated means operating well, not subject to regulations", gun-owners in America still don't meet that definition.

What good is a militia member who can't demonstrate basic competence and safety with their weapon, isn't required to meet any standard of fitness or miltary training, that potentially has a history of punching their wife?

And of course, the founding fathers were absolutely aware of this problem.

Washington spoke of his attempt to recruit from local militias by saying "you may, with almost equal success, attempt to raize the Dead to Life again, as the force of this country".

In a letter to his nephew he stated “I am wearied to death all day with a variety of perplexing circumstances, disturbed at the conduct of the militia, whose behavior and want of discipline has done great injury to the other troops, who never had officers, except in a few instances, worth the bread they eat.”

So tell us more about how "this is what the founding fathers wanted".

Citizens only need to pass a criminal check.

No they don't, at the pro-gun communities insistance.

The constitution doesn't grant many extremely important rights -- including the right to vote -- because it was written by slave owners who didn't want to grant those rights to slaves and women.

If they did add those things, they would have had to explicitly state those rights were for white men only.

I assume if they had, all the pro-gun people saying "we need to arm mass shooters and idiots because its in the constitution" would also be pro-slavery and anti-suffrage too, since they staunchly oppose changing the constitution no matter how backwards and immoral it may be.

Don't worry, all the pro-gun people promised that if the government starts ignoring the will of the people they'll shoot them with their cool guns.

Sounds like you're as much a psychologist as you are a militia.

Yes, please in your Almighty wisdom tell us how you would enact this?

Most mass shooters have a history of domestic violence, but the pro-gun community opposes disarming domestic abusers.

Most mass shooters have a history of red flags, but the pro-gun community opposes disarming people with red flags.

But really, you seem to have misunderstood whose problem this is to solve. It's not the people who support gun control doing all the mass shootings, its legal gun owners (or the children of legal gun owners).

If you want me to solve it, I'm more than happy to, bur you're not going to like it.

The rest of the country? You do realize that people who are gun owners are the majority right?

The majority of Americans support stricter gun legislation. basically any time they're asked.

Mass shootings are a recent phenomenon, not something that has been happening for forever and it's all the guns fault

You mean the last 20 years, during which you've let the problem spiral further and further out of control, despite insisting that you have the answers?

That percentage also won't be going down as all the children you sold out graduate and have to face sending their own children off to play mass-shooting roulette.

We've been armed for a long time, hell kids used to bring their rifles to school so they could go hunt afterwards, and this was less than 40 years ago that kids were doing this.

Then jump in your time machine and fuck off back there, because that America no longer exists.

If you think you can rebuild it, go right ahead. Until then, gun legislation isn't even remotely close to handling the America of today and needs to be addressed immediately.

Ah yes here it comes the tried and true method of dehumanizing your opponent...you think an AWB will stop school shootings

Oh no, you're mistaking me for a politician tip-toeing around a death cult. I'd ban all semi-automatic firearms from being privately owned, because they're the weapons of choice for criminals and terrorists.

It's not even remotely close to worth it. All the pro-gun promises turned out to be lies and fantasies.

because I don't think it will and that we need to focus on why they happen and solve that, you slam down the "ok with kids being shot"...how original.

How many innocent lives are your gun laws worth then? Because we've got the numbers and you've done nothing, so I just assumed it was more than that.

My wishlist of how to heavily curb all violence in this country starts with

Damn, looks like you've got a fuckload of work ahead of you before it's safe to sell guns to people again. Better get started.

2/3rds of our gun deaths are suicides

Means reduction has worked for every form of suicide it's targeted.

the remaining 3rd has around 85% as gang/drug violence

The they get their guns from the magic gun fairy, or did they steal then from "responsible gun owners" who left their guns poorly secured?

Or did they just buy one because "haven't been convicted of a felony yet" is a trivial bar to clear? Or maybe they just bought one privately without a background check at all, because that's a feature that pro-gun cultists insist on?

then domestic violence

Which again, the gun lobby doesn't consider grounds for disarming someone.

the last tiny bit is mass shootings... it's basically a rounding error it's so small.

Weren't you objecting to the "okay with kids being shot" label just a few sentences ago? Because calling murdered people a "rounding error" sounds exactly like someone who is okay with kids getting shot.

As long as they're not yours apparently.

It's fascinating what causes you to clutch your pearls and what doesn't.

They've crunched the numbers on fascism and it turns out that a slave workforce you can execute for not hitting KPIs is great for businesses.

It's the pro-gun crowd that insist no systems are enacted to separate "idiots" and "domestic terrorists" from "responsible gun owners", so you're either going to have to take responsibility for them or finally agree to changes that single them out.

Maybe if you can't come to an agreement with the rest of the country, you could come to some kind of agreement with the mass shooters instead?

They want to shoot children, the pro-gun community has children, and the pro-gun community believes that some children should be shot if it means maintaining the current gun laws.

That should settle things down until you've finished building your mental health utopia where its safe to give a gun to any man, woman or child, at any time, because you've completely cured violent impulses forever.

If gun owners were an issue...the 500 million firearms in civ hands means you'd know about it.

We do know about it. The entire world knows about it. That's literally what this whole conversation is about.

Repeatedly linked. Have the gun lobby built a GPT bot and taught it to sealion?

You should get a job at a suicide hotline and when people call up, ask them if they've considered buying a cool gun and shooting things because after all, it makes no difference at all if you give suicidal people firearms.

You know, because Australia banned semi-automatic weapons.

You are wrong, and it's good that we have such strong protections on our inherent rights to effective self defense.

"Good" how? Because it makes your pee pee tingly? Americans are less safe from criminals, tyrants and the monthly "legal gun owner opening fire on a crowd" than anyone in comparable countries.

Fortunately, there's nothing you can do about it as well.

Make buying a gun without proper checks and training a felony, remove the guns as evidence of a crime, try those responsible in a court and if they're convicted, congratulations, you're now a felon who has been shown due process then stripped of their rights.

Or just stop voting Republican. Personally, I don't care if "responsible gun owners" want to die in a hail of bullets after shooting at innocent people, just because it was democratically decided that the "responsible" part shouldn't be voluntary.

After all, would we even notice a difference? Legal gun owners are already responsible for 80% of mass shootings.

The second amendment also doesn't create a well regulated militia.

What use is a militia of morbidly obese men who can't even demonstrate basic firearm safety, whose entire contribution is "have gun"?

I don't know why we're suppose to politely play along with the hero fantasies of people who wouldn't even wear masks in a pandemic but insist they'd lay down their lives to liberate people from the fascists that they enthusiastically voted for.

What other right lets you mutilate a room full of children beyond recognition or execute your abused partner on a whim?

There's few things that upset "responsible gun owners" more then the idea that they might actually have to be responsible.