Plebbitor @ Plebbitor @lemmy.world

Posts

5

Comments

38

Joined

7 mo. ago

I agree in general, just like the word "decentralized". But in this case it's legit, because it simply means it's p2p. I'd call bitcoin "serverless" as well, so it's BitTorrent and IPFS. Plebbit is exactly the same: you open the desktop app and it runs a p2p node automatically in the background, to run your subplebbit, and users connect to it peer to peer. Your p2p node is not really a "server", because it doesn't require any centralized domain to function, it uses transport protocols and peer discovery instead.

Nice essay, strong fud but we have safe guards against this. Users can back up or copy any subs they want, so if a sub owner goes insane, users can simply restore it, to exactly how it was. Sure the name will be slightly different since the previous owner owns the name, so p/games might now be p/videogames. But that's a minor inconvenience. In fact multiple users can own a community which further safe guards it.

We will also remove communities that are toxic from our recommended subs list and replace it with the non toxic one. Alternatively users can create their on recommended subs list and share it round. Plebbit is open source so if we act nefariously, people can just fork it

we use IPNS for mutable data (like upvote counts, reply counts, etc) https://specs.ipfs.tech/ipns/ipns-record/ and gossipsub for an author node to communicate their publication to a community node https://docs.libp2p.io/concepts/pubsub/overview/

Plebbit differs from Nostr in that Nostr is federated (using instances), whereas Plebbit is P2P (fully decentralized). Plebbit uses IPFS, which is more similar to BitTorrent, which is pure P2P as well.

The issue with federations is that their instances are not easy to set up, most users don't have an incentive to do so, and even if they did, they are not censorship resistant at all, because they work like regularly centralized websites. Your Nostr/Lemmy/Mastodon instance can get DDOS'd, deplatformed by the SSL certificate provider, deplatformed by the datacenter, deplatformed by the domain name registrar. The instance admin can get personally doxxed and harassed, they can get personally sued for hosting something a user posted, etc. And instances can block each other.

Whereas running a node on Plebbit is as easy as opening up one of its desktop clients, which automatically run the custom IPFS node in the background, and seed all the protocol data automatically (similarly to how a BitTorrent client seeds torrents). It runs on a raspberry pi, on 4GB of RAM and consumer internet. It scales like torrents, i.e. the more users connect p2p, the faster the network gets. And most importantly, nobody can stop you or block you from connecting to another user, because there's nobody in between. This means nobody can stop you from connecting to a subplebbit (subreddit clone). If you run your own community, you're always reachable by any user on plebbit.

Steemit is A, it's a regularly centralized website with global admins, claiming to be "decentralized" simply because it's built on a blockchain. Whenever you are asking yourself whether something is "decentralized" or not, ask "how can I run a full node"? "What are the hardware requirements"? Steemit admins won't answer those questions. Whereas you can easily spin up your own ActivityPub (Mastodon or Lemmy) instance (even though those instances work like regularly centralized websites, at least you have the option to run your own).

On Plebbit, just using the desktop app of a client (like Seedit's desktop app you can download here means you are running a full node already. The app runs an IPFS node in the background, seeding all content you browse automatically, thereby improving the speed of the network for everybody else. The more nodes there are, the more decentralized the network is, so if all users can easily run a node and are incentivized to do so, then the network is properly decentralized/distributed. On Seedit, you can't run a community if you don't run a full node (the community is the node, acting like a server, and users connect to it P2P). There are no global admins.

You can create a plebbit client that uses DNS instead of crypto domains to resolve the addresses, but it won't be compatible with our clients because we think that's a terrible idea. The whole DNS system is a complete scam, it's controlled by very few people, all in the same jurisdiction. There is absolutely no point to plebbit if most people will use .lol or .fun names that the US government can seize with no effort.

DNS is not the future, crypto is the future.

Who is “we” here and why do they get to decide what’s acceptable in my community (‘subpleb’ if you will)?

For our clients, "we" means us devs, the devs of Seedit and Plebchan. You can create your own client where you have NSFW profile pics, maybe resolved with regular centralized image hosting websites instead of NFTs like we did. Our NFT whitelist is only temporarily centralized, same as our default list of subplebbit addresses to show in the homepage of the client (before the user is subscribed to any sub). Both lists are here: github.com/plebbit/temporary-default-subplebbits In our clients, we will decentralize this curation via gasless pubsub voting by token holders. There's no other way to decentralize it, so this is another thing that crypto excels at (DAOs).

Yes. Reddit is A, ActivityPub (Lemmy, Mastodon) is B, Plebbit (Seedit, Plebchan) is C:

https://seedit.app/ is a fully decentralized client for the Plebbit protocol, using a old.reddit UI.

You can also try a demo of a much faster version of Seedit, it works via public RPC: https://plebbit.mooo.com/seedit/#/hot (warning: you're using someone else's full node to browse fully P2P, so if you create a community it's in their node, it's not yours). This version showcases how you can create a community even on mobile device, running a full node remotely. But we have to build user auth for this, it's in our roadmap.

As the FAQ says, the base protocol doesn't use tokens. Meaning, there are no critical features tied to any blockchain.

The crypto features we implemented in our clients are not required by the protocol. The protocol works perfectly fine without them. We implemented them in our clients because they are nice, and they are:

• readable names using crypto names, instead of having to see long alphanumeric IPNS public keys as addresses
• NFT profile pics tied to a user's plebbit account, because we whitelist the specific NFT collections to prevent NSFW profile pics
• tipping, which is an upcoming feature, to provide a fully decentralized alternative to Reddit awards/gold (plebbit users will actually make money, so will the community owners and admins since they'll be able to tax tips in their community; and there's no corporation/global admin that gets a cut)

Plebbit doesn't use a blockchain, it's explained in the first paragraph of the whitepaper. Plebbit actually proves why a blockchain makes no sense for social media.

It doesn't need crypto, it only needs IPFS (but we could change underlying protocol in the future, if someone creates a better alternative to IPFS).

"no transaction fees" is listed as a feature because blockchain-based social media exists, and unlike them a plebbit full node doesn't have to sync (because it's a IPFS node), it just runs immediately like a BitTorrent node would, and it runs on 4GB of RAM even on a raspberry pi, on consumer internet (consumes less bandwidth than YouTube) and it only uses a few GBs of storage. Blockchain social media fundamentally cannot scale because of node requirements, that is if you want the platform to be "decentralized" (enough full nodes).

We do have crypto features, as an addendum. Mainly, we use crypto domains such as .eth (ens.domains) end .sol (sns.id) to resolve plebbit author/community addresses to readable names, because they are IPNS public keys (very long and impossible to memorize, e.g. 12D3KooWMLCgrZT8Ucaw2DWnv1HsQianf9tVi8sK6JCbCod3XK8T). Unlike DNS, crypto domains are censorship resistant. They are cryptographic property, you hold them in your wallet, which means if you change the address of your plebbit community to one such domain, you are tokenizing your community. In theory, the more users your community has, the more people have saved your domain, the higher its value. Compare that to Reddit for example, where all subreddits are owned by Reddit, they can ban your community with millions of subs, because it's not your property, it's theirs.

plebbit.com is just a landing page made by a member of the community, to explain the project. To use plebbit, you can check out its clients, like Seedit.

worse content searching

It's pure p2p so it can't have content searching straight out of the box, but it can easily have indexes like 4chan archivers to search in known subplebbits. It's entirely possible to crawl all active subplebbits and archive them all in a central database, and use that for search. This will happen, and plebbit clients will probably implement multiple such archivers to run search in them. And search engines will be able to index.

worse scalability

It's orders of magnitude better scalability than regular sites such as federated instances. Because it works like torrents, except you always seed, so plebbit nodes will inevitably improve the network speed more and more as more nodes join. And running a node works on a rasp pi. And all content is just text (including links from which media is embedded by the clients), so there's no scalability issue relatively to storage, either.

worse moderation

It has way better moderation, because it's just like reddit in that every community moderates itself, except there's no global admins able to censor a community/node or impose global rules. Plebbit clients are simply static HTML tools to browse the p2p network to connect to each community directly. Every community is incentivized to moderate itself effectively, or they become unusable, and to enter the homepages of the clients they must get voted for by holders of the plebbit token, via a gasless governance system using pubsub it's this page, you'll be able to vote for communities, i.e. downvote communities that aren't well moderated to remove them from the homepage for everyone). Right now, this homepage default list is centrally controlled by the developers, it's the only remaining centralized part of the project.

Links have a character count limit, you can't link to a base64 image on plebbit.

All the code is fully open source on github.com/plebbit

It's not a competing standard, it's a whole new approach to decentralize forum-based social media.

ActivityPub is not fully decentralized, it's a federated design, meaning it's a network of instances, and each instance is just a regular website with servers. Anyone can run an instance, but it's expensive, tiresome and you'll get banned for it; they are regular websites.

whereas Plebbit is fully decentralized, it's purely peer to peer, meaning it's a network of peers where every peer can potentially be a full node by simply using the desktop app (or in the future, a non custodial public rpc on mobile), and you don't have to run any site/domain for it, it's censorship resistant just like running a torrent with a BitTorrent client.

Also to be clear: like ActivityPub is a protocol with clients, such as Mastodon and Lemmy, Plebbit is a protocol with clients, such as Seedit and Plebchan.