Peck @ Peck @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

The Article 5 wording is vague. It states that an attack against one member “shall be considered an attack against them all.” What is quoted less often is that each member state only has an obligation to take “such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force.”

https://cepa.org/article/willfully-vague-why-natos-article-5-is-so-misunderstood/

He could have waited until they finish talking and say exactly what he was going to say. It came out unprofessional. Not that Trump is professional, but Trump is a Trump and in the end Zelensky was there to ask for support. Instead he tried to demand it. Dumb.

What? Is truth hard to hear, you baby killing Nazi?

Well he sucks as a leader. Instead of negotiating ,he throws hissy feet. What a small thing to say thanks guys what a wonderful administration and then have a real discussion behind closed doors. Instead he just put his country in terrible position. This was so ducking predictable. He could have salvaged it so many times but he chose to be stubborn and now his people will pay for it. That's right: it was in essence his political career vs lives of people. He chose his career. I know those are Ukrainian lives so you don't care about them, but to me that was the height of idiocy. I hope Zelensky is remembered as a murderer. He had a choice to negotiate surrender in 2022 and he had a choice today. He just did what was convenient for him instead.

They are under an obligation to decide what they want to do collectively. If they decide that it was an aggression, then they are under obligation to provide support. It can be exact same"support" that Europe is already providing to Ukraine. That's too say not much of it

Is this really that weird? I feel like I have been to work meetings with more intensity. Also my read on it was that Zelensky was super annoying. The way he interrupted Trump and Vance all the time even though they are in charge of the situation and location. I know Trump does it too, but dude that's not how you handle this situation. You'd think that Zelensky would know that. Any middle manager in corporate America would handle it with more grace. Sheesh

You do realize that article 5 does not mean that other countries have to join the war, right? They can choose to or they can choose not to. Even if they choose to get involved, it can be in form of economic support. And even if they choose to declare war, it can be in form of loud words. So I expect Poland would be on it's own.

We've heard all this before. "Russia will collapse within a week... err month... Well maybe a year." Yet here we are, Russia is doing okay for itself, war effort continues, Ukraine on slow retreat. All that sponsored with my money. Let France and Italy pay for it.

Going to be blocked by multiple countries.

Oh yeah. So brutal. Brutally touching each other. Touch me more brutally Donny

Now who's being childish

It won't. Spoiler alert.

Why would you expect that? Wasn't the whole deal first offered by Zelensky anyways? He was offering this along with using Ukrainian people as combat slaves. Points 4 and 5 here https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/plan-peremogi-skladayetsya-z-pyati-punktiv-i-troh-tayemnih-d-93857

Yes China makes big distinction between US and Europe in its rhetoric. And they are working on pulling Europe from USA, but it's early days and it will take time. Lots of time.

I don't think so. They are culturally too different. Europe will continue to suck American cock for at least couple decades going forward. That's not to say that economic ties won't increase in the meantime.

If you think about it from position of China being the biggest threat, then only Asian bases and countries matter. That's why we don't hear much about Trump doing crazy things in that region.

While Europe is important, it should be able to fend for itself. Also Europe joining China is unlikely in short and mid term. So it make sense to spend less money on Europe and focus on Asia.

Also explains the Russia situation. Although culturally Russia is as European as Sweden and Germany, this war has pushed it closer to China than ever. If the conflict lasts longer, then their alignment would be immenent. Personally I'm surprised that they didn't align more. China was being surprisingly passive about the whole thing.

Military industrial complex obvsly

Hey I'm American and I'm all for EU paying for the war in perpetuity and for our mic sinking all the way to the bottom on Mariana trench.

Spoiler alert: it won't