OpenStars @ OpenStars @discuss.online

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2,252

Joined

2 yr. ago

It's their computers, their network storage, their internet hosting costs - they can do as they please. So too can you, e.g. move elsewhere, or even spin up your own instance. This shit gets expensive though, and people have irl jobs as well - this is VOLUNTEER efforts on their part!?!?

Be the change that you want to see in the world. And then watch as others are similarly not impressed.

Fwiw, I for one am impressed though, at the speed with which they got all of this done. I am not advocating that people use Lemmy.World - in fact I think they should not, but for other reasons of decentralization rather than this - but I do appreciate their efforts on behalf of keeping the entire Fediverse alive and going (as opposed to e.g. the police being able to shut the server down, which may or may not have happened but anyway it's a legit fear that they were reacting against imho), which enriches us all.

Society is breaking down, thereby leaving us open to someone claiming to offer to restore "order & authority" and "the rule of law".

Exactly how the conservative Alt-Right used "bUt ThE eCoNoMy ThO" and the situation in Gaza where "BoTh SiDeS sAmE" to win the recent USA election. It worked then, why wouldn't it work again now, to make "free speech" illegal?

Well, huge caveat: I have no idea if this will happen, I only worried about the possibility that it might, hence starting my comment with "I would not be too surprised to find that..."

And to break out into a meta-discussion: damnit, now I'm hedging my words again, reiterating over & over again the caveats and bounds outside of which I did not mean to extend my words into territory that I never said, yet I seem to feel that others will undoubtedly accuse me of having stated (almost as if I had done so directly?) nonetheless - just like I used to have to do with Reddit. I really hate how one cannot seem to say anything genuine on the internet without being accused of all sorts of crap. I think it's b/c you cannot have adult discussions with children (of whatever physical age) around. Meh, it is what it is. This is "social media" and meant just for fun & casual conversations - we will never solve anything of substance here though:-).

Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. I think you’re spot on.

I think you just answered your own question:-).

Follow the money / incentivization trail. If such media blitzes were not happening, then the people behind them aren't doing their jobs properly and they should be causing more, according to "that way" of thinking, imho (or perhaps we're too small, and yet here we reflect what is being discussed elsewhere too, so even if only by trickling in from the outside, such trends should still be visible here?).

Before you go too deep, the mod responsible apologized, the ToS were amended, and this is all being discussed out in the open. The 24 hours mutings are already rescinded, and no new bans are said to be planned as a result of discussing the topic moving forward (as you said, unless it looks to be planning something in the future, which is just a whole other thing entirely). i.e. in the face of this huge event the admins PANICKED, but ultimately everything is already calming down and returning to a semblance of normalcy - and that whole process took less than half a week! This is nothing at all like spez's take-it-or-leave-it Reddit.

That said, it's good to take advantage of decentralization anyway, and yes the anarchy instance (that you mentioned below) looks awesome (I enjoy much content hosted on it and greatly respect its admin and their overall contributions to us all here:-) and I think you will be happy there. If this event caused you to question your priorities and what you hope to see moving forward into the future, then that's a good thing to increase your future happiness level:-). Though I wanted to point out that in that case it's less "Lemmy.World = bad" and more that you are finding a better fit for your needs. LW is what it is, and it's not Reddit, even if it is not anarchy either. I for one find it absolutely fantastic that both can exist on the Fediverse side by side together, enriching all of us, each according to our own needs and desires:-).

I would not be too surprised to find that there were... "sources" promoting the recent uptick in violent rhetoric. Not that the underlying current of resentment did not already exist, mind you, but pushing it forward more strongly in order to sow FUD?

Either way, I expect that if such is not here already, it at least will be on its way. The excuse that this will give Trump to shut down avenues of free speech is just too perfect for me to not at least suspect some kind of involvement beyond mere coincidence.

People always seem to forget this, especially when they want to say something and it would work out in their favor if you believed (or at least would not strongly contest) this and would just let them talk. Your own consent to have to listen to them seems to matter not at all, so very very sadly to me:-(.

They can be fun to talk with. They can also be extremely harassing, though tbf more for people who don't know what !ChapoTrapHouse@hexbear.net is all about - i.e. who have not read its sidebar text. And yet, many apps (like Voyager, and the basic mobile browser web UI) do not show that? Like porn, it's mainly only bad if you stumble upon it unawares - e.g. while at work - and would have to opt-out of it. Which, if Lemmy was that way, then many people would have to simply cease checking Lemmy while at work on those devices.

Many of the users on lemmy.ml who are seen harassing people the most outside of the actual Hexbear communities are self-admittedly alts of Hexbear accounts. Consent means nothing to them, apparently, so when hexbear.net was defederated from Lemmy.World a year ago, they simply shifted over to an account that wasn't blocked. Like an incel who will never cease telling you what a "nice man" he is, they simply WILL NOT stop.

Which is all the more sad considering how many legitimately nice conversations go on daily inside of the many other Hexbear communities. But those conversations aren't why Lemmy.World and so many other instances chose to defederate from them. In the post whose link I sent earlier are a bunch of other links where each instance makes its own determination and offers links to exact posts and comments that they felt justified their decision to defederate, if you want to read through some examples. Tbf many have since been deleted by their creators, though that should tell you something right there, about the transparency and integrity of Hexbear users who when blamed don't always retort with the truth so much as do whatever they hope will work so as to be able to dunk on people (and thus when caught, lie, even the instance admins, to other instance admins even!?!?!? which I also put a link to that event as well in that post).

TLDR: I get it, it is not literally every single comment, user, and/or community that does it, but it is there, if you spend more time looking. There are exact links there if you want help finding them.

Woah.

Ofc it won't stop alts from leaking through - nothing can stop that - but in fighting against spam, every little bit helps.

Will you now be using it as your primary instance recommendation on Reddit? There is perhaps literally nothing better for that, so this is fantastic news that may help even the non-USA parts of the Fediverse by allowing the bringing in of more users who will feel safer to talk than they would have before, due to harassment for having a USA centrist (which let's be real translates into a global and especially from the EU perspective, right-leaning) viewpoint. Comics, memes, hardware, woodworking or more techie Maker stuff and so many other hobbies, I hope to see more discussions about them all, with this helping people on Reddit to now be less resistant to joining.

🎉🥳💐🎇

Well stated, e.g. Reddit is both "dead" (to so many of us) and also "not" at the same time. But the contract I meant is more related to per-person - the admins & mods get to act however they like, and so too do we. It's a contract that was written prior to humans existing, as in actions and reactions. If they go too far in whatever manner as to piss off their users, then they lose them. Whether piecemeal or in large chucks or wholesale or whatever.

They can then remain kings and queens 👑 of their sad little hill if they like. On the other hand, if a mod pisses off an admin too badly, they are removed, and if an instance pisses off the law too much, the whole thing gets shut down. Mods therefore have to do that balancing act between their community members and the admins, just as admins do at the next higher level up of the law. A fact which hasn't seemed to feature all that prominently in most discussions of this topic that I've seen yet so far.

That’s at their whim. At their choice.

Absolutely. There literally is no other way, besides authoritarianism. The owner of that community though is an anarchist. So while nobody can predict the future with 100% accuracy, I was relating my belief that it seems unlikely. (i.e. since "won't" is impossible to ever be said with complete certainty, I was rather meaning it as a likelihood estimate - if that helps clear up any confusion)

You would not say that if you knew more about the maker of that community:-). I mean yeah sure they could, but they won't.

Though just to highlight the cool aspect of federation, if I were wrong and that did happen, there is also !Fediverselore@lemmy.ca and !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works.

One instance, one community, cannot ever be counted on, but the Fediverse relies on the fact that we can always go elsewhere - that CANNOT be stopped:-).

Though it would require effort to make happen - freedom does not imply lack of responsibility to have to expend work in order to attain any kind of results at all.

Oh absolutely (and it wasn't me who downvoted you btw, in fact I'm upvoting both here bc relevance). I would argue that there's a social contract, regardless of money, to the people who contribute to making an instance what it truly is - e.g. spez did not "own" all of Reddit content. Though at the end of the day, don't the admins have far more involvement in the matter than a mere lurker, and a mod perhaps the most of all, since they donate their blood sweat and tears into the thing that they build (or at least help build, as in curate) daily?

So if people don't like an instance then move, and same with communities. I blocked !news@lemmy.world months ago and subscribed to !globalnews@lemmy.zip instead. The world is what we make it.

True... then it could be appealed to admins I suppose. Someone could make an entire community dedicated to coin flipping, where that is the sole means of deciding whether posts get to stay or not. So long as no instance rules are violated, it's all good.

Don't underestimate the amount of disinformation propaganda pushing even in such a small platform as here, potentially by people radicalized elsewhere but have now decided to bring it here. Not everyone is a bot (nobody here that I know of even, I'm just bringing up the infamous phrase), yet not everyone may be fully cognizant of the reasons behind their own beliefs either.

If the last criteria is defederation from hexbear.net, then there is strong hope for Discuss.Online. Though I don't know if they would want to host a political community that would involve such controversial topics. They probably would be welcoming to like an AskUSA one.

Then step up to volunteer your services as a mod? Reportedly the tools are terrible and the reason why there are so few mods is that so few are willing to do the job. If a limit were to be placed, without having such volunteers, then how would all those empty positions be filled?

Mods could still remove it though, not for instance ToS but community rules.

I haven’t seen a single comment actually advocating for violence

Re-read the OP, particularly the third paragraph but also definitely the sixth - it covers exactly this topic.

Usually bc they are trying to see if they can get away with that argument. And sometimes it works so they continue to try.