OpenStars @ OpenStars @discuss.online

Posts

10

Comments

2,252

Joined

2 yr. ago

True, but those users on the Big Three are fairly reputable for being contentious. So much so that merely blocking Hexbear alone will improve someone's experience on the Fediverse by ~90%, and then if you are able to block Lemmy.ml (most people using Lemmy cannot, not truly) then that improves it by a still further 90%.

Put another way, yes it blocks too much - that much is sadly true - however when the vast majority of the most batshit insane comments that one sees across the entire Fediverse comes from a user on one of the Big Three instances, then rather than leave the Fediverse entirely to get away from such, it makes a helluva lot of sense to just block users from those instances (which again, most people on Lemmy really can't do, without going to extreme measures).

It's like email spam: what legitimate content are you willing to give up in order to block the vast majority of incoming stuff that you don't want to see? There's enough leftover after blocking it out, at least for me and many others say the same. It does kinda suck for users on those instances, but like... at this point it's very well known, and they've made their choice, so now all that remains is for me to make mine, and my preferences - to avoid nonconsensual insanity thrown at me relentlessly from an instance that not only fails to discourage such but sometimes actively encourages it - should be able to matter too!

I'm seeing a lot of people call Hexbear a tankie instance lately - they aren't really though, they are an instance full of trolls who are militant against any belief system at all (most especially their own?), or as near to that as makes no difference. They constantly lie - most especially to one another, and have even been caught lying to other instance admins.

I would lump Hexbear in under a name like The Big Three (to block), but I just thought I'd point out that many people are going to argue at its being called specifically a "tankie" one. And ofc it's more than just these three - e.g. Midwest.social has been caught in numerous scandals as well, though unlike the Big Three, the actual users there are perfectly fine, so I don't advocate for blocking it, just avoiding the communities there.

Speaking of, the Lemmy "instance blocking" would have been much better named as a "community mute", since it allows you to see the users from that instance, and they can vote on and reply to your content, triggering notifications, etc. The only real way to do an actual instance block is to move to an instance that has defederated from it (requires admin rights), or use PieFed that can implement a true user block from any instance you ask for (no admin approval necessary), or the Lemmy apps Sync and Connect can likewise do that.

You are not the first person I've heard this from. Ironically the people who avoid anything even resembling a political topic can have quite the calm experience there, in the other communities.

However, it's still supporting that behavior, and there's also the "first they came for" mantra, which suggests that even though they haven't banned you from the entire instance yet, it may still lead to a shocking surprise when they eat your face off later rather than sooner.

But yes there are many other instances to choose from:-). Like feddit.org for a location-based instance for someone in Europe, or Discuss.Online for someone based in the USA, or themed instances such as programming.dev or literature.cafe, etc.

On r/RedditAlternatives people say e.g.:

1. it's software made and run by tankies
2. it's way more difficult to figure out how to use, than e.g. Reddit, much like Bluesky is easier than Mastodon
3. it looks so much more empty, especially for topics not about using Linux or generic memes - where content at?
4. they don't need apps and will continue so long as Reddit hasn't killed off old-Reddit yet
5. they don't want to bother with change, and their niche sub is where their current community is located, with very few others willing to move, hence they do not either (crabs in a bucket)

Obviously all of these have at least a germ of truth, as well as being mixed in with laziness and believing falsehoods, like that Reddit isn't already changing underneath them, so that even using old-Reddit as they have for years, it's not the same anymore as it was.

Also, Lemmy isn't doing well in terms of adding new features to capitalize on attaining more users - e.g. in many ways the software here is even more authoritian than there, since while there is a modlog there is no modmail, no notification upon removal or locking of your content (notice the similarity here to being shadow-banned?), and the modlog simply says "mod", so there is zero recourse to understand or appeal a mod decision. Plus lemmy.ml routinely instance-bans people from communities that they've never even heard of, for a single criticism of something going on in Russia, China, or North Korea (which ofc would be perfectly understandable for a rule violation, except that's never stated anywhere in any rule set!?!?!? how are people supposed to follow the "rules" when nowhere are they ever written down!?).

And don't even get me started on the TROLLS here!!!! That is the express purpose (this one even written down, tbf!:-) of Hexbear, to have the opportunity to "dunk" on liberals - which itself is totally fine, so long as both parties give consent to it, but the trouble comes when it spills out from those communities, or when someone stumbles into them by replying to a post seen in the All feed, without the ability to read the side-bar text first explaining what it is all about.

Lemmy requires ENORMOUS efforts to curate someone's feed, by blocking users, communities, and even whole entire instances (speaking of, the Lemmy feature that "does that" actually does not do that - it would have been better named as a community mute, since it still allows users from the instance to appear in communities not located specifically on that instance), and in the meantime people get bullied and name-called for their beliefs. Surprise: most normies do not enjoy that happening to them, hence just walk away rather than put up with all the gaslighting and other crap coming at them from Lemmy users. We aren't terribly welcoming here, in many ways.:-(

Here is an example of an instance admin abusing the privilege of being able to see who voted for what content. OTOH, this incident was noted, and people started abandoning whole entire communities there and moving them elsewhere.

THIS is the freedom that the Fediverse offers: not that you can do whatever you want, but that you don't have to remain beholden to anyone else (like spez), and instead can move elsewhere at any time, while still accessing the entirety of the Fediverse (unlike Reddit which gates it behind their API limiters, for the sake of profit).

shouldn’t follow you

Do you mean... across communities? PieFed has a community-specific metric iirc, or else it was coming soon, but Lemmy has nothing even close to this.

PieFed also has anonymous voting, but I am personally against that, as it seems too easy to abuse. I'd rather go the other way and make everything fully public. If you want to offer someone a criticism, then why not attach your username to that message being sent? Doing that would make for a much more civil environment IMHO.

Absolutely: the voting systems were out there for a reason:-).

Is it really the fault of the system then, if it was set up with one intention but then was abused?

Btw, reddthat.com has downvotes disabled, so if you made an account there you would never see them again. The downvotes would still affect the sorting of the comments on other instances though, and thereby the frequency of replies.

I for one want downvotes, if I say something incorrect then I deserve it, but I don't want downvotes from people who are just trolling - nor upvotes from them, nor replies either - bc then it takes some of my time and attention to try to guess what is going on, and sort true facts from their fictional views of the world.

So for me, it's not "voting" that I would like to see addressed and fixed, but rather the presence of trolls. Which PieFed (and the Lemmy apps Sync and Connect) provide many tools to help with, e.g. it can block all users from an instance, unlike the Lemmy feature of the same name that merely acts as a community muting but does not actually block the users themselves in any way.

I love how PieFed is heavily pushing towards the democratization of moderation, but that's another subject altogether I suppose:-).

But then they would be easier to spoof and thereby enact vote manipulation.

PieFed was doing some experiments along those lines. Personally I don't like the idea of fully anonymous voting and would rather go the other way and make them fully public - that would give people pause before doing things like downvoting every single reply to a post or every post in a community, or following people around and downvoting everything that they do.

Voting ideally would be a 2-way proposition where someone can offer their opinion, and the recipient should have the ability to choose whether to receive it or not - i.e. be able to block someone who is abusive, or whole entire instances where that is exceedingly common (cough Hexbear cough, and their very common alts on Lemmy.ml).

Lemmy.ml enacts censorship in this manner as well

I was talking about censorship in general, but you might be right specifically about Luigi mentions on those instances, I would not know.

There are whole entire communities dedicated to discussion of this effect - e.g. !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works.

Your example removed comment is fair, although done by a community mod rather than as the OP article here suggests done without the Reddit sub mods even being able to see the comments prior to removal. Then again, Lemmy.World is rather authoritian on the spectrum. You can always move your account to some other instance that you prefer better btw, like lemmy.dbzer0.com if you want a more anarchist experience or slrpnk.net for communism.

The beauty of Lemmy is not that we are a so-called "free speech platform" - bc we are definitely NOT that! - but rather that we can easily shift over to somewhere else if need be, even spin up our very own instance (that one takes resources, time, and technical knowledge).

For example, I've given up on most of the largest communities on Lemmy.world, most of the time, and subscribe rather to smaller versions elsewhere.

Yes, but note that it was happening here as well. Certain places here were HIGHLY active in the BoTh SiDeS sAmE activity, just prior to the USA election, and similarly influenced other elections world-wide. Learn which places these are, so that you can take full advantage of the Fediverse, which isn't "a place" so much as a forum software that allows many many places to share their content - but all sides here are NOT equally dedicated to truthiness.

Here is one example:

Judge for yourself what you think might be the intention for making and spreading it... although if we are going by the mantra of the effects that it may have caused possibly being the reason for which it was made, it looks to me to suggest that people in the USA should not be enthusiastic about voting or encouraging others to vote for Kamala Harris.

Edit: to be clear I'm not suggesting that Lemmy is "the same" as Reddit - in some ways we are worse here, being even more authoritian than Reddit was (or rather "is" I guess:-P), but in other ways it's so, so much better, in that we can pack up and move to another instance and simply carry on, having access to the vast majority of content as before (exceptions include defederations and a DM directed to our old account won't follow us), which was (oops, "is" again:-) not true for Reddit.

There’s only one reddit. Only one twitter. Only one facebook. Only one youtube.

Not anymore, on the Fediverse, and I'm here for it.:-)

These are the kinds of helpful comments that made Reddit a great platform to visit, once upon a time. Now, I'm glad that we still get to read this type instead on the Fediverse.:-)

It likely looks to them as if the accounts that remain to be moderated are humans, the same as it was in the past, even though it's no longer that way now.

They've already been caught doing that - well, not for disinformation spreading but for engagement appearance, around the time Reddit was doing its IPO so needed to hike its stats to give to advertisers as quickly as possible. While entire posts, comment for comment, though with different usernames but the identical responses to the identical questions, and then deeper responses to those, and so forth.

So they don't need the appearance of older accounts - they can manufacturer whatever they need, from scratch already. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they created "10 year old" accounts at will.

Reportedly Reddit was not always that way though, earlier on.

Imagine if someone comments with what you see as a stupid take, but phrases it as a legitimate question indicating a willingness and even eagerness to learn: I often upvote such, bc that's an attitude that I'd like to see more of. The alternative for them would be to keep silent and remain in their ignorance?

Conversely, someone that says "^This" - I may likewise agree with whatever they responded to, but that's what upvotes on the latter content is for, and there's no need to also upvote the former along with that.

Apparently saying [some stuff] is now against the rules too even though they never told us

Lemmy.ml enacts censorship in this manner as well, as too does Midwest.social. But there are so very many other instances that do not, making the former easy to avoid while being able to engage with a ton of content:-).

they managed to keep the domain in the end

Thank you.