Olgratin_Magmatoe @ Olgratin_Magmatoe @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

I just gave an example of how it is meaningful.

It's definitely a terrible system, and there are better ones out there like 10Groups. But astrology is completely meaningless. The PCT at least tells you a vague (terrible, yes), but somewhat meaningful direction in which you believe.

For example, I know that since I'm libertarian left on the PCT, that I'm going to disagree with 90% of the things somebody who's authoritarian right on the PCT believes.

Astrology doesn't have that ability to reliably compare, since it is literally and completely meaningless.

But again, shit like 10Groups is better and everybody should switch to measures that have more than 2 axis.

Again, 6x as many third party votes on the right. Spoiler effect ain’t shit to the left.

On its own that statistic is meaningless, as it doesn't tell you how much overlap there is, and therefore how much spoiling there is. And regardless of which side, the spoiler effect is a symptom of a terrible voting system. The entrance of an irrelevant candidate should not sway the results of an election at all.

Additionally, everything is looking like it will be a very close race, in which case every bit of the spoiler effect matters, even if more of it is on the right, which you haven't established.

The overlap exists yes but the DNC has not moved left much in 12 years leaving progressives pretty disenfranchised

I don't like it either. But my point stands, there is an alternative choice.

The problem here is the spoiler effect, the system in which we elect representatives. It is in large part what allows the doupoly to remain uncompetitive.

The spoiler effect is at best a bad hypothesis

No, it's well understood, and very clearly exists. Here is an example using randomly generated voters ans candidates:

        Election report for election "Plurality 2 Candidates"
    Total people: 1047

    Kruger - 112 votes - WINNER
    Sahl - 111 votes



  

        Election report for election "Plurality 3 Candidates"
    Total people: 1047

    Sahl - 109 votes - WINNER
    Kruger - 93 votes
    Maikol - 91 votes


  

The problem is that these are in effect venn diagrams. There will always be overlap, and that's the problem. That's what leads to election results being changed by the entrance of an irrelevant candidate (the spoiler effect).

and has never been proven to effect actual votes.

That's because the spoiler effect most easily happens in races that are already close, because we don't do much actual real life testing with actual elections because of the uncountable number of variables, and because doing it the python data science way is significantly more meaningful because of the aforementioned number of variables problem.

People voting third party just would not vote if there was no third party option.

If that's really true, then this whole idea about the democratic party trying to earn the votes of green voters is bunk. Either there is no overlap, in which case it's bunk. Or there is overlap, in which case we have a spoiler effect.

I'm not seeing any non-voters in these types of threads.

But yeah, non voters are a bigger problem.

A vote for Green Party/PSL/etc. is better than the alternative for those voting third party: not voting at all.

That's not the only alternative. There is overlap in the spheres of voters of the green party and democratic party.

IF the DNC actually wanted those votes it would court those votes.

The issue is the spoiler effect which is a result of the overlap.

the difference was smaller than the margin in California

That's arbitrary. The same is probably true of Florida/Texas combined.

The whole point is that the power of a vote is independent of location.

This is exactly the thing I've been looking for. It saves everything as a sqlite db, and has csv export options. So you're not fucked over if you need to switch to something else. It's compatible for linux/windows.

And the import options seem pretty good too.

Congrats, you've made me spend the whole day switching everything over to that lol.

The only real issue is that one of my banks deals with more than one type of currency. So I've had to write a custom script to handle that. But all in all, this is a massive upgrade for me. Thank you for this recommendation.

If we don't test for hurricanes, the problem will go away. Don't look up.

I am a little disappointed that they didn't include approval as one of the examples.

But still a fantastic video.

The real issue is low info voters aren’t going to have a nuanced opinion like. It will be 0 or 10.

Yeah. For the reason I think each candidate should be given one page to explain their policy. And that page should be printed out and available to all voters.

For mail in voters it should be included with their ballot.

Far too often I've voted in local elections and tried to research the candidate just to find no information on any of them. It's infuriating trying to make a choice when it's impossible to know anything.

We are wasting our efforts arguing over the details of a voting system when voting reform isn’t even on the table.

Agreed. But we can dream.

and replace it with the election being won based primarily on turnout in California

No, it would replace it with a majority FPTP country wide system. Californians are a minority of the country. They do not get sole control, nor would they under a popular vote system.

California was larger than their margin nationally.

But not all of that margin comes from California, and not all of Californians vote blue.

Where you live should have no effect on how much of a voice you have in the federal government. Everybody's vote should be counted, and counted equally, because we're all made equally. The current system completely fails at that.

I can see that happening, which is why I think approval is the best of them all.

And with that said, so long as not all the votes are given equal scores, their votes would still matter even if they don't believe in 5 star perfection.

And IIRC, there is nothing actually stopping a STAR system from using a 1 to 10 point scale instead of 5, which would further help with that issue.

Yes and no.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

The NPVIC may work to get around the electoral college without amending the constitution. It would still be FPTP which wouldn't be great. But it would at a minimum be an improvement, because it would do away with swing states, red voters stuck in blue states, and blue voters stuck in red states.

I'd take RCV over nothing, but STAR and approval are significantly better like the other user said.

Some reasons for approval

• Addition is the only math involved. So it is extremely easy to get live results during counting. It makes auditing votes extremely easy.
• It is dead simple to understand, so the least amount of voters will be confused by it.

A longer form explanation of some of the other stuff:

https://dividedwefall.org/star-and-approval-voting/

Not at all, it's just what I'm personally familiar with.

A dual USB C/USB A drive is always nice.

It makes transferring files from phone to phone or from phone to PC significantly nicer.

Shoutout to LocalSend if a purely software approach is applicable. Fills the same role very nicely, and is free.

I can press any button I like on the console without looking, while knowing what button is.

I will never prefer anything else.

just finished bioshock, wow!

Fantastic series, I'm glad you liked it, because I sure did as well.

I'm sure you're already loaded up with a backlog of recommendations and games you bought but haven't yet touched. But I'd highly recommend FTL: Faster Than Light, as well as Into The Breach. They're both from the same publisher, and are both amazing games that arguably are a defining feature of modern gaming.

I hear there are cheats for call of duty type things that people pay subscriptions for. I don’t get it.

Yeah, I'm right there with you. Could not care less about subscriptions, let alone for cheat subscriptions.

Thanks for sharing your experiences mate.

Of course. Enjoy whatever is next on your list!

I will admit I'm making some strong, harsh statements. But I think that's a pretty natural result of living in the U.S., a country who's cops operate closer to a gang than Rescue Heroes. They kill minorities with virtual immunity. They racially profile people. The list goes on.

Somebody who intentionally joins a group like that does not have good intentions, or is ok with their buddies not having good intentions, or gets kicked out quickly for tattling on their fellow cops. So yeah, cops are never on your side, at least not here.