OccamsRazer @ OccamsRazer @lemmy.world

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2 yr. ago

If you actually wanted to understand my point, you would have a long time ago. It's not that complicated.

You are intentionally mischaracterizing my stance and then being preachy and condescending about it. It's pretty annoying so I'm going to move on.

Elon is mature enough and to know better and I'm not defending him. But my argument is not that they would do it inadvertently, but that they would do it without understanding the significance. I feel like you keep trying to bully me into a position I don't hold...

Dude, if a 15 year old kid is messing around with his buddies and throws up a salute, it should not be punishable. If a 30 year old autistic guy throws up a salute because he never understood the context or meaning behind it, he shouldn't be punished. I can theorize a hundred examples that wouldn't be deserving of punishment, but are actually simple misunderstanding or ignorance. And that's the problem. I don't think it's acceptable, but I also don't think it's punishable through government actions. Social pressure should be sufficient to correct ignorant behavior in cases like this. Do you think it's more just to punish an innocent man wrongly, or to let a guilty person go free? Do you feel confident in the justice system ability to determine guilt accurately?

I didn't really answer because I'm not quite sure. I suppose i have a hard time imagining what category of actions or words should be punishable with jail time. Maybe hate speech? But then how do you define hate speech? And how do you limit the growing list of things defined as hate speech? Seems too easily politicized, like they could be repurposed as blasphemy laws or something. I guess i tend toward those not being punishable offenses because of their subjective nature. A nazi salute might cause me to roll my eyes, but cause you a ton of distress, regardless of the actual intent of the person doing it. Maybe they did it without knowing what it meant to you, or maybe they thought it was funny, or maybe they were trying to normalize and legitimize hatred of Jews. It could be any of those or something altogether different. There is far too much subjectivity or room for error.

Well, as im sure you are aware, once a label is given power, then it can and will inevitably be used for other purposes. If you can jail people who have been labeled as nazis or terrorists or whatever, then it's just a matter of time until that label gets abused.

Sure! What's worthy of more punishment, stealing packages from your neighbors doorstep or doing a Nazi salute? How about assaulting someone and mugging them? I think those are both worse than a nazi salute and deserving of more punishment. A Nazi salute wouldn't affect me at all except to be annoyed at their idiocy. Beating me up or stealing my stuff definitely impacts me. I don't have a clear idea of how much punishment is reasonable, but probably something less than the punishment for petty theft. That's my two cents.

It's a little jarring seeing a post like this alongside a post celebrating the possibility of jailing people for doing a nazi salute. Anyway to answer your question, some people cannot function in society. They are dangerous, and the only way to prevent them from harming others is to isolate them from society.

Why stop at jail time? Why not execute them?

Edit: the point is to consider what level of punishment is appropriate, not to actually execute anyone.

The point is to jail people you disagree with by whatever means palatable to the general public. You can't just run around jailing people, you have to have a reason.

Oh it's dangerous?? Someone should stop him!

That's a fair question. It's mostly just my observation, but if I were obligated to guess, it is partially filtering based on the types of people who are active and readily express their opinions on various topics, but also because of the reasons people moved to lemmy in the first place, many of whom were evicted from reddit because they were too extreme.

There are a lot of people, especially on lemmy, who see everything through the lens of their personal ideology and utterly lack the ability to empathize or understand different views or life situations. You only matter to them insofar as to how it can advance or support their ideology. It's pathological, and their views should be ignored.

Lol you answered nothing at all. Did you even read my original question?

Probably because they think he is incompetent and should be in jail. If your employees don't respect you and think you should be in jail, then they might not be a good fit.

He is deporting Americans? That's your argument? What does it take to become American?

How or by what were they forced to leave their country?

What refugees?

It's a low confidence theory, but still the most likely theory based on the available evidence. And yeah it's not new news.

The main reason they don't have the evidence is because China won't cooperate. We may never know.