OBJECTION! @ Objection @lemmy.ml

If someone claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a l

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And I'm not a fan of Zionazis trying to pass themselves off as "leftists" while supporting genocide and apartheid, but here we are.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. I mean, I'm also 100% a leftist, I'm extremely left on most issues, but I also just don't get why so many people are opposed to this one particular state.

I mean, people always talk about the whole conflict with Germany starting in 1939, but you really have to consider that those wars happened because they were reclaiming territory like the Danzig Corridor that belonged to them historically. They even tried giving territory back to France by setting up the Vichy Republic. And it was the communists and partisans going around trying to stir up a class war who really started things, we had to put them in camps for the sake of security. And I feel bad for any innocent people caught up in it, but it just feels like nobody extends the same concerns to the German civilians the government is trying to protect. At the end of the day, if the Reichstag Fire hadn't happened, none of this would be happening.

Oh! My mistake, it seems I mixed up the names of some countries and events there. You're totally right though, if those people didn't want to get massacred and starved, they shouldn't have tried to resist your political project and/or had homes in places you wanted to forcibly seize. You know, this is just like what I'm always saying, "It's your own fault you got slapped, because you shouldn't have resisted." I mean, that's what leftism is all about, amirite?

There are some libertarian types who might put up a token objection to medding in foreign conflicts. However, Trump equivocated on foreign policy while Biden and Harris were fully gung ho about getting involved in every conflict everywhere, which allowed Trump to sell himself as more "moderate" on foreign policy (though in reality he's also a hawk).

The core of Trump's base has no problem with it, of course, but they're always going to vote for him and not every voter Trump replied on to win fits that stereotype.

When he was a serf, they said to him, "Let me find you in this field: I will hang you if I find you in anyone else's field." But now he is a tramp they say to him, "You shall be jailed if I find you in anyone else's field: but I will not give you a field." They say, "You shall be punished if you are caught sleeping outside your shed: but there is no shed." If you say that modern magistracies could never say such mad contradictions, I answer with entire certainty that they do say them. A little while ago two tramps were summoned before a magistrate, charged with sleeping in the open air when they had nowhere else to sleep. But this is not the full fun of the incident. The real fun is that each of them eagerly produced about twopence, to prove that they could have got a bed, but deliberately didn't. To which the policeman replied that twopence would not have got them a bed: that they could not possibly have got a bed: and therefore (argued that thoughtful officer) they ought to be punished for not getting one. The intelligent magistrate was much struck with the argument: and proceeded to imprison these two men for not doing a thing they could not do. But he was careful to explain that if they had sinned needlessly and in wanton lawlessness, they would have left the court without a stain on their characters; but as they could not avoid it, they were very much to blame.

The desperate man to-day can do nothing. For you cannot agree with a maniac who sits on the bench with the straws sticking out of his hair and says, "Procure threepence from nowhere and I will give you leave to do without it."

(GK Chesterton, Eugenics and Other Evils)

And this right here is why anyone remotely on the left should be pushing back against this "tankie" nonsense, because if .ml gets defederated, dbzero will be the new tankies (even though it's an anarchist instance lmao) and if they get defederated, who knows, maybe it'll be .ee next, and so on until you can't say, "I'm voting democrat, but it kinda seems like Biden's in poor health" without getting called a tankie (though I'm pretty sure that already happened lol).

We're basically the tanks (lmao) pulling aggro away from more moderate leftists.

I heard that some people drink so much of that crap that literally more than 50% of their body is made up of water. I don't even know how it's possible to still be alive at that point, I mean, JFC it's like you're not even a solid at that point, you're just gonna dissolve into a puddle. Like, get help.

And to think, there are people around here who accuse me of not being a "real" leftist. Who but a leftist would post a page from from a webcomic that's 90% text? Checkmate libs.

I'll just leave this here

"We have to give them everything they want from us first, and then we can start pressuring^[writing politely worded letters to] them!"

I learn from the best! This comment would have been unironically upvoted a year ago by all the people downvoting it now.

You're exactly right. There's absolutely no way to influence the Democratic party's decisions through criticism or making it clear that they're on track to lose. Joe Biden is who we're stuck with and if you say you won't vote for him, you're completely useless. He's the only one who can beat Trump.

Strangely, he wasn't listed on my ballot so I just had to write him in.

Wow, this thread is full of Russian bots and Trump supporters. Biden is the picture of health, extremely spry and cognizant, personally, I thought he handled himself very well in the debates, despite the media attacking him unfairly over his stutter. Regardless, he's the nominee, whether you like him or not, no amount of complaining will change that. He's the lesser evil so we're stuck with him and you just have to vote for him, unconditionally.

there is a perfectly good flag for England that people refuse to use

Well yeah, but these days, you say you're English, you'll get arrested and thrown in jail 😆

We can't condemn the Nazis because if we condemn the Nazis people will think we're Nazis. When people see that we won't condemn the Nazis, that's how they'll know we aren't Nazis.

Non sequitor. Not what I said and not a Republican.

Campaigns are about winning swing states, those are just the rules of the game. Kamala lost that game worse than any Democrat in nearly 40 years. Maybe the rules we have aren't fair, and if they were different, she would've lost by a smaller margin. But then, both campaigns would've been run completely differently, the same candidates might not have even been the nominees, etc.

By the actual rules of the actual game, Kamala lost extremely badly.

This was literally the worst electoral map for the Democrats since 1988 when Republicans won Illinois and California.

:::spoiler Which Country is the Greatest Threat to Peace? (Gallup, 2018)

I'm confused, when you talk about voting "Democrat," do you mean, for the Democratic-Republicans? I was thinking of voting Federalist, personally.

Since our system makes it impossible to change from the two currently existing parties, it follows that the two parties we have now must be the ones we started with.

But regardless, this is typical shortsighted liberal (i.e. capitalist) analysis that only looks at the immediate outcome and only at electoral politics. If a significant portion of the electorate can make a credible threat to sit out if their demands are not met, then they can leverage that threat to get what they want. The right is much more willing to do this because they put their values above reason, and it works - many Republican candidates understand that if they look soft on things like abortion or guns, a sizable portion of their base will defect, even if it means voting for a crank and throwing the election. Democratic voters are much more committed to being "reasonable" and so refuse to set any red lines anywhere, and the results are clear: the right successfully shifts the Republicans to be more extreme, the Democrats follow, and the left falls in line and accepts it. We are desperately overdue to start learning from their successful tactics and from our own failures, setting down red lines, and thinking beyond the current cycle. And we can debate where exactly red lines should be set, but if genocide doesn't deserve one, nothing does.

Moreover, the facts of physical reality, the material conditions, and the myriad of crises we're facing demand radical changes beyond what we are told are possible in the existing system. But those things are physical, natural, immutable facts, while our political system is, on a fundamental level, manmade. We do not have to abide by its rules and what it tells us is and isn't possible - but we do have to do that regarding the laws of nature, which tell us about things like climate change. Monarchy had no mechanism built into the system to transform into liberal democracy, and yet, here we are. That's because there are fundamental mechanisms for change that exist within every political system, whether the system wants them to or not, and I don't just mean revolutions, but demonstrations, strikes, etc. And so, the party I voted for, PSL, participates in electoral politics for the express purpose of building organization beyond electoral politics. Helping a candidate who I see as fundamentally unacceptable win an election is less important that helping to promote that sort of organizing.