Nahvi @ Nahvi @lemmy.world

Posts

2

Comments

191

Joined

2 yr. ago

I can appreciate that train of thought.

A lot of agnostic and atheistic people have spent a lot of time considering their own moral and ethical values; I know I have. While my own version started with an ethics class I took while at a bible school, I still needed to spend plenty of time once I left that life considering what morals and ethical values I thought were relevant.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that an unbiased observer thought I was religious until they got to know me better.

You can be a wise, moral and ethical person without religion

I fully agree.

Edit: That in no way discounts the idea that there is a lot of wisdom in religion. Even if some of it is outdated.

That is not really what I was referring to Edit: when I said I doubt we are beyond the need for religion. There is a (debated) theory that religion was important in moving from tribalism towards modern civilization. Specifically, the belief that a god or gods would punish your neighbor if he was doing evil behind your back may have been a necessary concept in our development. Even in modern times, the idea that our fellow citizens may be doing evil without recourse is a serious consideration. It may be adding to our current societal stresses.

Of course, that could be all horse shit, but I am leaned slightly towards that opinion at present.

Expression of Religion is a choice. Belief in religion is often more fundamental to who a person is.

once they can get their own fucking house in order

This is the fundamental problem right here. There is no house. There are neighborhoods worth of houses. Some of them not even next to each other. Some of them share outdated morale codes. Some of them have moral codes you and I could both respect. They are no more in control of each other than we are of them.

It is one of the definite weaknesses of all the separate denominations. If there was only one Christian group, we could try to talk with the Pope and the other Patriarchs and potentially have them all heard the group in the same direction.

Just think of the Westboro Baptists, so shameful that even the KKK denounced them on their home page a few years back.

It is a bit on the nose.

Thank you for the link. The article from that comment was far superior.

I am sorry to hear that Josh lost his life like that. Seems like Philly lost a good guy.

Hopefully it wasn't actually the domestic option. It is a hard thought to think that someone he helped out by letting them live there would come back to kill him.

Also, I am glad to hear that his friends are looking into rehoming his rescued cat friend.

Jesus never even existed.

Please do a little research before making such ridiculous statements. You do not have to believe in a god to believe a man named Jesus existed. There is likely more evidence for the existence of a man named Jesus than there is for the existence of your own great-great-grandmother.

Virtually all scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed. The contrary perspective, that Jesus was mythical, is regarded as a fringe theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Excommunicate Christians who vote religion into government and spend every single tithe on restoring Roe v. Wade.

If this is where you set the bar for treating Christians like anyone should treat another human then there really isn't anywhere to go in this conversation.

Not that it really matters but I am not a Christian. I am just someone that believes all humans should be treated with a bit of respect until they prove they are not worthy of it by their own personal words and actions.

Same here.

I have an uncle who was killed due to an article he was doing research for. Sadly, he ended up in a coma and then someone came back to finish the job. It had a large impact on my mother and her siblings, though it was a few years before I was born. I had always wondered how much of it was an exaggeration until a couple years ago when we found an article saying basically the same things the aunts and uncles always had.

It sounds an awful like you are saying, "Well yeah, we are bigots, but we are bigots because they deserve it!"

Am I misunderstanding you?

You are putting words in my mouth and then knocking your own words down like it means something.

Why not try actually arguing against what I said, instead setting up strawmen and then engaging in name-calling?

I could not care less what skin color she has.

I care that for political gain Newsom singled out her sex and skin color like they were the most defining factors about her.

I care because some people buy into it so thoroughly that they think someone pointing it out makes them a fascist.

I appreciate the well-thought out and verbose response. Have an upvote!

Now to the meat of it. I am not a Christian, I am someone who is tired of some bigots getting a pass and some bigots getting their whole instances defederated. Since there is clearly a disinterest in heavy-handed moderation to get rid of the one-sided bigotry then the best recourse is open discussion.

I have no doubt that the people here who are heavily prejudiced against religion have their reasons, but that does not mean that their words are good or acceptable in an open forum. When people express their ideas in socially unacceptable ways they should be called out and down-voted, but currently they they are mostly receiving positive responses. This is wrong. It is a mark against the communities and instances they are posting those statements in.

It does not matter why someone feels justified for spewing hate, they should be called-out or at least shunned. If you want to help someone work through their hate, that is great. I just want to stop being embarrassed by it. Despite being a great concept, I literally cannot recommend Lemmy to anyone because the top comment is so often some trash about how "all conservatives are fascists" or a gay activist died "it must be a Christian."

this drug related domestic dispute murder.

Is that what it is looking like now? The article was significantly sparse on details.

No. That is just being human.

No. That is just being arrogant. You can be human and acknowledge that your stance is an opinion and that there are other just as valid opinions. Yours just fits you better.

You can call me any nasty thing you want

To the best of my memory, I haven't called you anything. I was pointing out OC's bigoted statement.

I want to hear a Christian shaman to say that anyone who opposes their religion on the rest of us is no longer a Christian.

Ever heard of a Schism? Virtually every denomination in America thinks the others aren't doing it right. Half of them won't acknowledge each other as real Christians.

In fact, there are major schisms forming right now over LGBT issues. Methodists have been constantly in the news regarding their LGBT schism for the last year or two.

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2023-07-06/one-in-five-united-methodist-congregations-in-the-us-have-left-the-denomination-over-lgbtq-conflicts

Another article points out :

But the United Methodist Church is also the latest of several mainline Protestant denominations in America to begin fracturing, just as Episcopal, Lutheran and Presbyterian denominations lost significant minorities of churches and members this century amid debates over sexuality and theology.

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2022-10-10/united-methodists-are-breaking-up-in-a-slow-motion-schism

as evidence for what Christianity in the US is like is intentionally misleading

If I was trying to claim that is that standard view, then it would be misleading. Since I was actually claiming that there are a wide variety of beliefs among Christians, some even aligning with your values, it is pretty spot on representation. Treating them all the same is prejudicial behavior.

A fair-minded person would give an individual a chance to act like an asshole before treating them like trash.

Care to explain how?

There is nothing wrong with calling people out when they try to suppress your rights. The problem is pretending all Christians are the same on this issue and using that as a justification to attack them all.

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/25/1124101216/trans-religious-leaders-say-scripture-should-inspire-inclusive-congregations

https://www.gaychurch.org/find_a_church/

I live in BFE Texas and there are ten Affirming Churches in the area; five of them are within about 45 minutes of me. As a comparison there are only two Cowboy Churches in the same area. Every major City I checked had several Affirming Churches.

Nearly two-thirds of Americans are Christian and they are not just going to give that up because you do not like their religion. These are people that need to be convinced of either the rightness of your cause or at least your right to live the way you want. Right now, all they are hearing is "They're trying to turn your little boys into girls" or "Fuck the Christians". Neither of these messages are helpful, and both make them feel the same way as you do when you look at that list. The difference is they have a lot more political influence.

When every asshole that wants to accuse a random Christian of murder, without a single piece of evidence, gets overwhelmingly upvoted it makes that fight harder.

You seem to not understand that word either. Nothing I said was bigoted.

What? I didn't call anything you said bigotry. Just adjusted the term I used based on your previous statement.

Calling out your hateful ideology for what it is, is not bigotry.

I am not sure what this means unless you think I am religious. I am not.

It took going to a Bible College for me to break it down. That doesn't mean that I have forgotten all of the good-hearted, well-meaning Christians that I met along the way. I haven't forgotten all of the assholes either.

Yes I know, there are plenty of busybody assholes that identify as Christians, just like there are plenty of busybody assholes that identify themselves as atheist, gay, straight, athlete or gamer. Some people just feel the need to tell others how to live their lives even when they don't really understand them. It doesn't mean that we should act like everyone in that group is the same.

That sort of prejudicial reductionism is the real enemy. It is the thing reasonable, free-thinkers should be fighting against, not turning around for our own use.

Fair enough. I should have called it anti-religious bigotry.

Nice quote, though I think it would be better applied to this whole post.

The few bits of wisdom here are so surrounded by shit that most people would need a hose and sieve to find them.