When I die, turn me into soup
MilitantVegan @ MilitantVegan @lemmy.world Posts 9Comments 199Joined 1 yr. ago
MilitantVegan @ MilitantVegan @lemmy.world
Posts
9
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199
Joined
1 yr. ago
Most farm animals have been selectively bred for traits that fit human needs, at the expense of the animal's own quality of life. For example, chickens being bred to produce so many eggs that they become calcium deficient and their bones break under the weight of their own bodies. Sanctuaries provide safe spaces for these animals to live out the rest of their lives in the most comfort possible, while going vegan is important for a future where we're no longer breeding these poor beings into an inherently hellish existence.
A fair amount of vegans might say that their experiences made them change overnight. I was not one of those people, as addiction is significant in me. When I was transitioning, I would go all in and keep abstaining from animal products as long as I could. Then I would mess up, and fall back into bad habits for a while. But the key thing that made the difference is that I never gave up. I'd track how many days I went without animal products and count that as my high score. Then when I tried again I would gamify it by being determined to get an even higher score.
As time went on I became more skilled at cooking plant-based, which helped keep me going since the food I was eating was beginning to taste better. Likewise my palette was growing more accustomed to plant-based foods. Eventually I messed up one last time by eating some pepperoni, but the experience was different. Because I had gotten so used to eating more wholesome meals, the pepperoni was such an intense salt bomb that I found it inedible (and that's coming from a salt-fiend).
But the other thing that changed was in my mind. Consciously I was already well aware that vegan diets are entirely adequate nutritionally. But a lifetime of unconscious carnist societal conditioning gave me this constant feeling as if I could not survive on plants alone. That was one of the things that always got in the way - this strange feeling like I was missing something and had to eat the stuff that was missing or I would die.
But when I bit into that pepperoni I suddenly had this calm recognition: "I don't need this. In fact this isn't food."
And things have only gotten easier over time. Hopefully this helps?
No, the data definitely doesn't support your position. Going vegan absolutely makes a hell of a lot of difference, even from just one person doing it.
https://thehumaneleague.org.uk/article/how-many-animals-can-you-save-by-going-vegan
Some vegans are against organic agriculture, and there currently is a huge problem where the various regenerative agricultural movements have been astroturfed by the animal ag industry with the whole free range thing.
But it ignores that conventional industrial agriculture also appears to be sending almost the entire arthropod phylum into extinction, which is still worse than organic ag.
There are a lot of reforms that need to be made to the agricultural sector, and veganic farming/gardening is one of those needed changes.
It's kind of hard to approach this in a tactful way. I think a lot of why vegans don't appreciate this approach is because it often doesn't work in actual practice. I'll give a personal example as an analogy - I used to be a smoker. I tried quitting at least 50 times over the time period I was addicted to nicotine. One of the tricks I would use was to reduce the amount I would smoke each day. It would help briefly, but what would always happen is that I would get to a point where it was too hard to reduce any further, and then after plateauing for a few days, I would rebound and smoke even more than I used to.
Reduction still played a role in my effort to quit, but there were a lot of other tricks I had to employ to make it stick, and the overarching point is that reduction as a goal went nowhere, but reduction combined with the intent to stop all together did eventually work.
And that's what also happens with dietary changes. Reduction starts with halfway good intentions, but when it's the goal it becomes a temporary self-soothe that simply ends up rebounding in the end. In fact the people who run wfpb health coaching clinics have stated in interviews that people are most successful when they go all in with the dietary changes - because it turns out that people often feel dramatic positive changes to their health within only days of going plant-based, and those positive changes reinforce their motivation to keep going.
And as this article points out, reducitarianism can never achieve justice. It's like when suits-wearers promise to reduce their carbon emissions by 10% by 2035 or something. It's better than nothing, but will never solve the problems that need to be solved.
The most accepted definition of veganism goes:
"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
Emphasis added. Your argument is valid, in that modern medicine, vaccines, and animal testing are all challenges vegans need to address. This is something that's a lot harder and less clear cut than diet or not wearing certain clothing. Not every vegan agrees on what the best course of action is either, but most lean toward at least not being anti-vaccine. Self-preservation pretty clearly counts under the possible and practical part of the definition.
But that does not invalidate the very real differences and good that does come from going vegan, for ourselves, for the animals who are spared a life of hell, and for the planet.
Veganizing bad idioms can be hard. I've taken to saying, "feeding two birds with one scone," for that one.
It's really not though, inability to do something perfectly does not invalidate the efforts people make.
Literally the only strictly necessary supplement for vegans is b12, and if you understand the science of b12, then you know that you either should be supplementing it anyway, or you're just rolling the dice.
By contrast there are entire whole-food plant-based communities who routinely report the near-miraculous benefits they gain after adopting the diet, such as cholesterol levels that aren't deadly.
"No ethical consumption under capitalism" says nothing about the abstaining from consumption.
If someone is being a bigot, should they not be shamed for it? Why should I feel like I have to tip-toe around animal abusers? You're the one doing the wrong thing. Would you adopt a vegan lifestyle if I presented my message in the way you approved of?
That's definitely untrue. Carnists never shut up about bacon.
If I use a technique that you approve of, will you stop abusing animals?
I remember reading about why greenhouse gas emissions are such a hot topic in environmentalism. The author showed how a lot of the other important environmental degredations we need to fix all interrelate right back to ghgs. Tackling emissions is a nexus problem - solving it simultaneously solves a lot of other environmental problems.
Veganism is similar. In the first place, we are never going to meet climate goals without also becoming significantly more plant-centric, since the animal ag industry is one of the single largest climate change contributors (in addition to their other environmental harms like fecal pollution and deforestation).
https://www.surgeactivism.org/aveganworld
Going vegan also happens to be a form of fascist resistance, as the animal ag industry is one of the largest funders of conservative groups (including Democrats).
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus?cycle=2024&ind=G2300
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus?cycle=2024&ind=A04
Going vegan is likely also one of the best choices you can make for your own health, particularly if you go the whole-food plant-based route.
https://www.redpenreviews.org/reviews/proof-is-in-the-plants/
Going vegan as a society is probably the only response that has any hope of averting an h5n1 pandemic - which could wipe out as much as half of the human population when it occurs.
https://www.surgeactivism.org/notifbutwhenbirdflu
And if worker rights and worker exploitation matters to you, then you should know that animal ag is one of the worst offenders.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sWyK389BJoI&t=915s
Going vegan solves many problems, and it's an issue that can't be handwaived with the line "but corporations produce 70%" — sorry. No magically ideal government is ever going to get 99% of the population to go vegan. It's cultural, and that means individual action matters. If even one person adopts a vegan lifestyle, it's estimated that as many as 200 fewer animals will be slaughtered per year.
Like it or not, we all have a responsibility to stop animal abuse. Doing so just so happens to help eliminate or at least alleviate a lot of other pressing problems as well.
Dang, gelato sounds good to be honest.
Not happening. Go vegan.
What leaves a bad taste for the vegan community is when a vegan tries to coddle carnists because they're afraid of not fitting in. Animal abuse is shameful, and people should be confronted and shamed for their abuses.
I highly doubt this argument about the agricultural suitability of different lands holds up under scrutiny. I've seen someone grow a small food forest on top of a layer of manure that was spread on an abandoned parking lot, in midwest climate conditions. We don't need the 'viability' of what can be grown where, being dictated by modern industrialized monoculture agribusinesses, since those practices are part of the problem.
And again it comes down to the possible and practical part of the vegan definition. I don't live in Mongolia, so I'll leave it to Mongolian vegans to determine what is and isn't feasible.
This is just basic whataboutism.