Lols [they/them] @ Lols @lemm.ee

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2 yr. ago

I do not see compulsory military service as forced labour, not by a long shot.

performing labour or 6 months of jail does sound completely unforced

A country that offers equal rights, universal healthcare and free education for all citizens, amongst many other tax-paid services.

i am so glad that you have all of that

If you do not see your own country worth serving, I feel sad for you

i said nothing about whether i see my own country as worth serving, but your pity is appreciated

I would gladly give my life to protect mine

and youll continue to have the option to do so regardless of whether your government continues to threaten its citizens into doing so

@oakey66@lemmy.world raised the fair point that opposing a weapons deal is not the same as opposing funding

here is a more concrete, applicable example

he’s been very weak on the ceasefire demand up until very recently.

this isnt relevant to whether sanders has pushed for blocking funding to israel

he’s talked about blocking arm sales

blocking arms sales not being the same as blocking funding is fair, however:

He has not called for an end to the sending of money to Israel

is at least misrepresentative

Even as Republicans have raised serious concerns about the border provisions of the bill, the $10bn allocated for aid to Israel has sparked criticism from Bernie Sanders . In a letter sent to his colleagues on Tuesday, the progressive Vermont senator warned against providing a “blank check” to Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel’s prime minister, as the death toll in Gaza continues to climb.

“No, I do not think we should be appropriating $10.1bn for the right-wing, extremist Netanyahu government to continue its current military strategy,” Sanders wrote. “What the Netanyahu government is doing is immoral, it is in violation of international law, and the United States should not be complicit in those actions.”

After it became clear that the bill would fail to advance on Wednesday, Sanders joined Republicans in opposing the procedural motion.

even if it was in response to specific bills as opposed to a complete and total cut, he has explicitly spoken out against bills funding israel, and saying 'the United States should not be complicit in (the actions of Israel)' in oplosition to a specific bill is still hard to read as anything but a call to cut funding of israel in general

they are remembering right

The issue is you’re confusing compulsory labour with forced labour.

seems like a you problem, what with you talking about compulsory labour while i explicitly said forced labour

If you don’t do conscription or civil service work (the alternative option) the consequences are a fine, or jail.

"youre not forced to do it, you just get tossed in jail if you dont do it"

In countries at high risk of conflict (eg Taiwan), it’s practically required for their continued short-term existence.

if a country can only motivate its people to actually protect said country by threatening them into doing so, it didnt actually deserve protection

and just stops people discussing the actual pros and cons of the practice.

good, i do not want people discussing the actual pros of slavery

im assuming you mean nuanced

me not agreeing with you doesnt mean i didnt consider your perspective, and saying 'well surely not all forced labour is slavery' isnt nuance

ok

forced labour is slavery

the system for who is required to participate has practically never been fair and equitable, jury duty is not comparable to military service, and forced labour is slavery

civil jury duty is a really weird example to use anyway, since civil jury trials are practically non existent outside the USA

forced labour is slavery

maybe folks would sign up to protect their country if they thought it deserved to be protected, or was doing anything for them

i mean palestine not being recognised as an independent nation wouldnt mean that the actual place, or leople there are not recognised as existing or being part of a country

but also

The State of Palestine has been accepted as an observer state of the United Nations General Assembly in November 2012.[1][2] As of 2 June 2023, 139 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states have recognized the State of Palestine. In contrast Israel is recognized by 165.

On 22 November 1974, the PLO was granted non-state observer status, allowing the PLO to participate in all Assembly sessions, as well as in other UN platforms.[34] On 15 December 1988, UN General Assembly Resolution 43/177 acknowledged the Palestinian Declaration of Independence of November 1988 and replaced the designation "Palestine Liberation Organization" with "Palestine" in the United Nations system.[35]

• On 23 September 2011, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas submitted an application for membership of Palestine in the United Nations.
• On 29 November 2012, the General Assembly granted Palestine non-member observer state status in United Nations General Assembly resolution 67/19.
• On 17 December 2012, UN Chief of Protocol Yeocheol Yoon decided that the constitutional name 'State of Palestine' shall be used by the Secretariat in all official United Nations documents.[36]

if im understanding this correctly, the UN recognises palestine as an independent state to the extent that it actually can but ultimately has no control over whether individual member states actually recognise it as an independent state

its a complete embarrassment that denmark still has a royal family

that some folks genuinely believe the same people were running the nordics 70 years ago, apparently

who knew that a walking, talking arrow with "THIS IS ISLAMOPHOBIA" written on it would actually be correct sometimes

i didnt voice any opinion on what the extreme or far left are, so i imagine you either didnt understand my comment or are being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian

no, it is the mainstream view on non-western far-left groups too

this is the mainstream view on the far-left

just out of curiosity, when will killing these guys be considered self defense