Hypx @ Hypx @kbin.social

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Joined

2 yr. ago

You're not seeing the whole picture then. Having only BEVs will mean millions of people being totally screwed over on transportation, and vast new mining operations everywhere. It's pretty much an environmental nightmare in its own right. A lot of attacks on the alternative ideas are just strawman arguments. As if BEVs will be exclusively micro-compacts and all ICE vehicles will be giant SUVs and with zero mass transit options.

In reality, BEVs are part of the problem. And one that can't be truly solved.

Talking someone into a BEV is just laziness, and more greenwashing than being a serious solution. It's not even easier, as you now need a garage and tolerance for long recharge times and less range. The actual easiest idea would be to create a drop-in replacement for ICE cars. E-fuels are an option. Hydrogen cars are similarly straightforward as a possibility.

BEVs are at best a transitional idea. All it seems to be good for is changing people's minds on green transportation. But it won't get us to the promise land. There are too many problems, and the resource requirements mean they create huge new problems of their own. We need to push for whatever that can best get rid of fossil fuel cars, which will have to be something else.

Because not everyone has a garage, and you still have to use the equivalent of gas stations if you're travelling long distances.

In reality, BEVs pre-date ICE cars. They were abandoned because they were found to be less practical. The vast majority of people actually want gas stations and not the reverse.

Now we're in the "pro-BEV bullshit" zone. Batteries won't magically solve all transportation needs, nor solve the energy storage requirements of the grid. Alternatives still have to exist anyways, and the total lifecycle efficiency of BEVs isn't that special. In a lot of cases, avoiding excessive use of batteries will save you energy. So pursuing alternatives will not need radically more solar panels.

Traditionally, the alternatives to Reddit were worse than Reddit. This is the first time that that is no longer true.

You can also make an argument that Reddit was the improved version of Digg. History can repeat itself if the Fediverse proves to a superior model.

Useful in isolation, but that is not what is happening here. People want to maximize the efficiency of a resource that is basically infinite in nature, while being fine with it destroying the rest of the environment in the process. It doesn't take much thought to realize that deprioritizing efficiency in favor of other factors is a much better compromise.

And this is even more stark when you realize that we are not merely prioritizing efficiency; we effectively have a cult of efficiency. One that maximizes the perception of efficiency even at the cost of actual efficiency. BEVs are still insanely inefficient compared to ideas like mass transit or walkable neighborhoods. A grid that runs entirely on renewable energy needs vast amounts of energy storage, which can't be solved by batteries without massive amounts of waste. A much smarter balance of solutions will actually reduce waste and improve efficiency. However, that imply that BEVs are a niche idea and aren't really needed in the grand scheme of things.

Because it is solar power ultimately powering it all. If you don't care about the efficiency of that step, you don't really care about all of the later steps. It is still green energy and still cheap.

The problem with BEVs is that while it is efficient in one respect, it is insanely wasteful in others. As a result, it is an unsustainable idea and functionally just greenwashing.

Except you've just proved my point: Solar is basically infinite energy. So why obsess over efficiency? If you have something made from solar power, it is not a big deal.

BEVs require conversion steps too. Not to mention the cost and energy needed to build them in the first place. They are nearly as efficient as their advocates think.

Hydrogen is a fuel. E-fuels are hydrogen plus CO₂ and converted into synthetic hydrocarbons.

You are blatantly ignoring the part where solar power is incredibly inefficient to begin with, and we don't care. It's still cheap energy.

Solar panels are only 15-20% efficient. No one is going around saying we need to ban solar panels.

Fuels made from solar power are the opposite of unsustainable. They are the most sustainable ideas possible. It is basically artificial photosynthesis.

Batteries are unsustainable and have massive resource requirements. It's basically an obsession with "efficiency" while actually being extremely wasteful.

E-fuels are made from solar power. It is not anywhere near 0%. Also, clearly efficiency is not "the only metric that matters."

Better ban solar panels cause they're only 15-20% efficient. /s

You avoid the giant, expensive battery though. People are obsessed with efficiency in a self-defeating way.

It's fuel made using electricity as the energy source.

BEVs are fundamentally more expensive than conventional cars. That is the real problem here. Blaming the dealers won't change that.

BEVs are a dead end. It's an idea older than internal combustion and is already obsolete. The world needs to shift focus to concepts like e-fuels or hydrogen cars.

We already have that ability. In particular, we can now make hydrogen from electrolysis at vast scale. Derivative fuels, such as ammonia, are also doable.

Your problem is that you are being brainwashed by the battery companies. You think magical batteries exist when they do not, but are stuck in the early 2000s when it comes to competing technologies.

Solid state batteries don't exist yet. It's the classic "magic batteries from the future will solve everything" argument. Meanwhile, a sensible path to zero emissions exist now, provide you accept that we should making zero emissions chemical fuels. At some point, refusal to accept this option is its own form of climate change denial.