Your recommendations for (Wayland) tiling window managers? Need some guidance before getting started
(Copypasting an answer to another comment on this post, slightly modified, here, so it reaches more people.)
I had a MS Surface too a while back.
After installing Linux, it felt like a totally different device. Just like you, I thought "That is how it was supposed to be!".
I strongly recommend you to try the silverblue-main-surface-image from universal-blue.org.
Why?
- Because you need the
linux-surface-kernel for it to work properly. Otherwise, most functions, like touchscreen, webcam, adaptive brightness, auto-rotate and more won't work at all. - You can install the kernel on other distros too, but it might break. I had that already happening. On uBlue, it's baked in and won't break. And if it does, you can just roll back.
- It comes with Gnome by default and provides you a great touchscreen experience
- And you can install Waydroid easily, which gives you access to Android apps. Distrobox is already pre-installed and gives you access to the software of every distro available, including Arch.
I don't recommend using another DE than Gnome for that. Especially those "light weight" ones like XFCE are horrible for touchscreens, and if you use a browser, those few hundred MBs RAM less used by them is negotiable.
Gnome is, like it or not, king for devices like that. The gestures on touchscreen, big icons, and more, is only surpassed by Android.
Incidentally, I had the exact same device. It actually worked pretty good to be honest!
Of course it will not magically be a top tier device. Programs will need some time to load the first time, and then be thrown out of RAM again.
BUT, compared to Windows, it will be a difference between night and day!
I strongly recommend you the silverblue-main-surface-image from universal-blue.org.
Why?
- Because you need the
linux-surface-kernel for it to work. Otherwise, most functions, like touchscreen, webcam, adaptive brightness, auto-rotate and more won't work at all. - You can install the kernel on other distros too, but it might break. I had that already happening. On uBlue, it's baked in and won't break. And if it does, you can just roll back.
- It comes with Gnome by default and provides you a great touchscreen experience
- And you can install Waydroid easily, which gives you access to Android apps.
I don't recommend using another DE than Gnome for that. Especially those "light weight" ones like XFCE are horrible for touchscreens, and if you use a browser, those few hundred MBs RAM less used by them is negotiable.
I recommend you to not buy a Chromebook for that specifically. ChromeOS sucks, both in privacy and function.
I used a MS Surface some time ago with Gnome. If you want a cheap tablet, then maybe buy an used one and slap the silverblue-main-surface-image from universal-blue.org onto it.
It has the linux-surface drivers already baked in and works ootb.
On any other distro (e.g. Fedora Workstation) you would have to fiddle with it and it may break due to the custom kernel.
Besides it being a shitty device (the model I had) and MS not being Linux-friendly, it was alright.
Sadly, the newer the devices get, the worse the Linux support also gets. But if you're only after a media consumption device, they're a good choice if you choose an used older model, e.g. from 2017-2020.
Preferably, check out the 2-in-1s from the Lenovo ThinkPad series, they're also pretty good and have excellent Linux support from what I've heard.
They should work under Linux ootb, since Lenovo isn't blocking its' usage.
Gnome is ideally suited for touchscreen use, it was a huge joy to use. You don't even need a keyboard!
It looks and functions as an ideal tablet-like UI, and even the on-screen-gestures work the same as on a trackpad.
If you want Android support, check out Waydroid. Then it really gets you the best out of both worlds, desktop and mobile.
Besides the uBlue-image I recommended in the other comment (Link here), which should give you a great OOTB-experience and which you should try first if you want, maybe check out fancontrol.
Sadly, fancontrol is a bit more complicated and might make your device overheat if you reduce the cooling fan speed.
Also remember to check this: https://universal-blue.org/images/asus/
Those images should work easily out of the box and give you a very gentle experience in general :)
Dang it, you got me!
Just kidding 🙃
I get why you think about that. I sometimes enjoy thinking about "conspiracies" like those too.
Especially with the rise of LLMs and bots, it doesn't sound unrealistic tbh.
On the other hand, I don't believe MS does care about us at all, or at least that much.
Years ago, yes. But they're really good at their "Embrace, extend and extinguish" practice. They "love" Linux now, don't forget that. Home users leaving Windows isn't that big of a problem for them, as long as we continue using their services, like Edge, Outlook and Teams.
The MS ecosystem also dominates the business world and won't get replaced anytime soon, and this field is where the paying customers are.
About the fake-accounts: if I'm not certain if I am reading a troll post, checking the profile helps.
For example, I'm a mod of some communities, have a very long and extensive post- and comment history, and behave like a human would (which basically means I'm very dumb sometimes 🌝).
So, the chances of me being a troll from Microsoft is there, but slim.
I have to admit: I was the same as the example from you in my beginning times.
Here's my story if you wanna read it:
!I have never worked with IT things 3 years ago when I started, it was all new for me. I didn't even find the download-button on GitHub.
But, dumb ass me, tried to install Arch (iirc) on a fucking Microsoft Surface tablet. Of course that didn't work.
Then Manjaro, Fedora, Mint, ElementaryOS, and 10 other distros. I spent about 3 weekends burning USB sticks and installing distros.
Just because it didn't work ootb. Of course it didn't because I needed the surface-linux-kernel.
I can't (couldn't) deal with frustration (at that time) and posted a "I'll go back to Windows" on Reddit because I was so fed up.
I'm still incredibly thankful for that one person that therapeutically asked me many questions on why and guided me step by step.
"Now, type in git clone xx && chmod xx. What's the result?", "Oh, you forgot sudo, try it again", etc.. !<
!He talked to me like a he would explain it to a 5 year old, but that was what I needed.
Somehow we got it working together after a few hours of troubleshooting, even though my frustrated dumbass failed in basically every task, including breathing.
I still can't explain how he got the patience for that. !<
!I cried out of happiness and used the device for 2 more years because of that.
It was probably this one person that helped me stay on Linux, and I'll never forget that.!<
I want to be the same as this mentor, and I think just offering frustrated noobs a helping hand and open ear will help a lot.
Being unconventionally/ unfittingly friendly can open many doors!
They often need some type of vent, and if it helps them feeling better, great! Post like those usually don't get much attention anyway, so I think the risk of them turning someone else off Linux is not that high.
This post idea was inspired by a recent post by Guenther_Amanita@feddit.de in this community.
❤️❤️❤️
I wouldn't say I was ever a "power user" per se, although I could do several tasks that were more technical if needed
It's great to see other people out there too who aren't programmers or have an IT-background.
When I entered the Linux-world 3 years ago, I had a very rough start. I had to learn everything from scratch and didn't even know how to download something from GitHub.
Nowadays, and I'm extremely glad for all those evolutions that occured in this time frame, everything is way more accessible now.
Still, you will probably encounter some stepping stones, just like it is usual when learning something new! ✌️
Just keep going, and eventually, you'll use Linux as intuitively as everything else.
I'll primary Ubuntu
Good choice! You'll hear people say "Ubuntu sucks, switch to xy", but, honestly, it isn't bad and a good choice.
As long as you're happy, everything is great!
You'll distrohop someday anyway, so enjoy your peace for a while... 😅
I can only thank the helpful, enthusiastic people here in the Linux community for making my experience so smooth. It's rare you encounter a group of people where you can post what is ostensibly a stupid question, and be pummeled with dozens of well-formed, thoughtful, detailed responses to the question. There's very little of that infamous grandiosity and self-righteousness that I've heard runs rampant in the Linux world, and maybe Lemmings are just more prone to being helpful than the wider internet, but for what it's worth, I appreciate everything you all have done here so far.
I had the same experience. The patience and welcomeness is just unmatched. 90% of my experience has been just like that, and only a small percentage are jerks. Just remember, those 1% are a loud minority, so don't get discouraged when there are asshole comments one day.
I think the whole "noob-support"-thing is some kind if generational contract. We all got help learning our first steps in the Linux world, with the same experience as you, and now wanna pay that back.
I feel so much more capable as a computer user with Linux than I ever did on Windows.
Same. Starting Linux was the first domino piece for me.
Now, I have a homeserver, flashed my first Android custom ROM the hard way, radicalised myself in the FOSS-mentality and began to interact intensely with the community (Github, Lemmy, etc.). Using Linux made me a cliché somehow, it's a slippery slope.
Thank you for your post! It was a great read! 🙌
I think you misunderstood my post.
I don't have anything against newcomers - quite the opposite. I try help them a lot and support them as much as I possibly can, since I got the same help a few years ago.
The only thing I criticize is the lack of organisation. There's a huge flood of those two types of posts, and other content just drowns in them.
There is no good and bad. Every format or solution has other pros, cons, and especially use cases.
Flatpak is simple and for GUI only.
Appimage is portable.
Nix is reproducible and developer friendly, but pretty complicated too.
And Distrobox' main advantage is that you can use any container-distro.
If you want some software that only runs on Ubuntu, Nix won't get you far.
It might not be perfect (see other comments for examples), but for some use cases, it's the best solution.
As long as it gets you to your goal, anything is good.
Hell, even Snaps can be a good choice if you need some specific software and this format provides you easy access to that. Personal choice and such...
It's a valid point for sure.
But I also think "complaining" is a great thing everybody should make use of if one feels like something is going the wrong way.
A community is made out of many people, and everybody should have a right to decide the direction.
Often, from those "complaints", are coming good and innovative ideas and betterments.
If no one makes constructive criticism, nothing will get better.
I think explaining why you think so would be better than just saying "No" and not elaborating further.
Could you maybe please tell me your stance on that in more detail, in case nobody else already explained it better?
If your assumption is true, then I feel really sorry for those posters, really.
Getting many upvotes should only be a sign of "This post is relevant for many people", not "Many like it".
The up- and downvote system is supposed to be a filter, not a like- or opinion system.
And, even if account karma really exists, then it still doesn't mean anything.
I also had many posts/ comments that got negative votes, and I would never have thought about deleting them, except if I accidentally hurt someone with them and someone notified me of that.
Otherwise, I stand to my opinion and/ or use the edit function to add my changed stance.
You think a post or comment should be higher up, because it's useful or OP put a lot of work into writing it? Upvote.
Post has no relevance (for no one, not only you) and isn't worth seeing? Downvote.
I constantly upvote stuff I don't even care about or that I see controversial, just because OP took a lot of time.
At the same time, comments like "This!" and other Reddit-ish comments and post are instantly downvoted because they neither promote discussion nor relevance.
Yeah, the ease of use really looks promising, otherwise I never would have thought about that.
I have zero coding experience, but it seems to be doable even for a noob like me!
Did you make your own distro, or do you just mean tweaking some stuff here and there?
Would be very interesting to know what you did!
As for my own story: I'm currently reading into how I can make my own image from universal-blue.org.
I'm planning to take a look into TWMs and am not that happy with current setups and want to make it better (for me at least).
Doing that traditionally would be impossible for one person, but on the self-maintaining immutable system? No problem!
I have to admit, the RTFM-mentality or "you're too dumb to read"-thing is very unwelcoming in general and would drive anyone away, no matter whom.
And then the whole community becomes more toxic over time.
I'd rather tell someone nicely that he may have more success in the specialised community than here, but still try to answer the question if I can.
It's not only important to be friendly/ supportive for keeping the community alive, no, it's mainly for keeping the morale alive.
I asked many really dumb questions in the past too, and I always got very happy people took their time to answer them in detail. That made my day in the end!
About the blind upvoting: I also upvote many posts where I see any value in or where the poster put work into, even if I don't care much.
But conversation is more important imo, it's what drives this platform.
I'd rather have 5 upvotes and some helpful comments than 500 upvotes and nothing else in my post.
Downvoting on the other hand should only be used if something is very low effort or should be filtered out in some way, not as dislike or disagree button.
Depends. If it's just one sentence, it won't add any value or stuff to discuss.
But if it's an experience report it can always be interesting to read and adds value.
Your arguments make sense, thanks for your input :)
or contribute with fresh content. 😉
See my post from yesterday about Distrobox. Was one of the top 3 posts of the day and also took a lot of time :)
Do that and keep my updated ✌️
I thought about it too, but I personally want to use the downvote function only to signal a low-effort or low-worth post, not my opinion or dislike.
Remember, it's supposed as filter, not opinion system.
So while I personally don't find much liking in some posts in general, there has always been a person behind it that invested time into writing that particular comment or post.
Yeah, I tried it, but it didn't feel like I wanted continue using it.
Wasn't that the "continuous notebook" workflow?
If yes, then it altered the stock workflow too much for me and felt a bit janky. The main reason for me to use Forge is that it only changes the floating windows into tiling ones, and I feel like that's how Gnome was supposed to be somehow.
But I can take a look again at PaperWM, thanks!