Gorilladrums @ Gorilladrums @lemmy.world

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291

Joined

2 yr. ago

Illegal? No, most countries arrest people on grounds of probable cause. In this case, Israel can just cite that they arrested this crew for national security reasons, which is technically legal. During their arrest they'll determine whether or not they want to file charges against them. If they do then they'll proceed to a trail, otherwise they'll be released.

You understand we're talking about this crew, right? You understand you posting this has zero relevance to the claim you made or the topic at hand, right?

I'm sorry, but I'm having a difficult time understanding what you're asking. Are you asking if someone counts as a hostage if they got abducted by someone else just for vengeance? If so, then no, they're not hostages. This would be considered a kidnapping.

What part is untrue?

It literally doesn't matter, they're not going to step foot into an active war zone. The purpose of this whole stunt is get media attention.

Well, I guess it has utility because we’re talking about it.

I guess, but at the same time this has been the most talked about international conflict of this decade so they're bringing attention to a thing that is already receiving a lot of attention.

I don’t really think there’s much else that can be done other than state level actors putting a stop to it. Or like a reverse crusade where freeing Palestine from Israel is the goal, need a leader for that.

Force is not going to end this catastrophe. First of all nobody wants to get directly involved, especially on the side of the Palestinians, but even if they did, Israel is quite strong. Arab coalitions in the past tried to do just this and they weren't successful.

The only way for this conflict to actually end is for Israel to end it, and the only way this can happen is if Netanyahu and his coalition get ousted from government. He should've been in prison decades ago, but it's very likely he will be once this war ends which is likely why he doesn't want to end it. Regardless, if this government doesn't collapse soon, then we will have to wait until the next general Israeli elections on Oct 27th, 2026. Either Netanyahu's coalition ends the war themselves to try to win back the public before the elections or the opposing coalition is going to end it right after they win.

Do you have any evidence that this crew is being starved or tortured?

Okay, but we're talking about this crew specifically. They serve no purpose as hostages.

Genuine question, how did you come up with any of these? Do you just throw any random label without taking into account what they mean?

To be imprisoned means to be kept in confinement as a punishment. They're not prisoners by the definition of the word nor are they being tortured (like where did you even get this from?). If we were to label their current status accurately then they're arrestees in custody of Israel.

Literally nothing is going to happen to them. They're going to be released once they get the boat hauled to an Israeli port and then Israel's calls their respective embassies. This was this group's intention from the start.

The Oct 7 terrorist attacks weren't ghetto uprising. They weren't spontaneous, grassroots, or widespread. They were premeditated terrorist attacks by specific terrorist groups to cause as much harm as they could to the nearby Israeli population. The first and second intifadas could be argued as ghetto uprisings, this is nothing like that.

No, this is what will realistically happen:

1. They'll intercept the boat
2. They'll haul it to a nearby Israeli port (like the port of Ashdod)
3. They'll detain and question the people on board for a bit to confirm their identities
4. They'll call their respective embassies in Israel
5. They'll have them either released to the embassies or directly deported to their countries

And that would be the end of it.

Yeah that's not happening, Sweden's foreign Minister has already come out and said that Greta Thunberg is safe, is a moron, and doesn't need help but if she does then she'll get the same help by the embassy as any other Swedish citizen:

Several protesters had gathered outside the Parliament House on Monday. This is to call on the Swedish government to act against Greta Thunberg and several other activists being arrested at sea outside Gaza.

"Israel has, as we judge, some opportunities to escort this ship with the international law," the foreign minister said when she was interviewed outside the Chamber.

Israel claims Thunberg is “safe.” Swedish Foreign Minister Maria Malmer Stenergard believes that Thunberg is currently not in need of the Ministry for Foreign Affairs’ support.

"There is a great responsibility on those who choose to travel in violation of the advice that exists into a place," says Malmer Stenergard.

“If she gets a need for consular support, we will do everything we can, just as we do with all Swedish citizens,” she continues. Encouraged to put pressure

The Ministry for Foreign Affairs is said to have been called down on Monday, says Malmer Stenergard. This after Greta Thunberg on social media urged “friends, family and comrades” to put pressure on Sweden’s government. This is what Maria Malmer Stenergard can have consequences.

“It is quite dangerous to conduct a campaign that means that the Ministry for Foreign Affairs’ consular emergency services will be called down. As a consequence, that the needy Swedes in the world will have to wait far too long in line, says the foreign minister.

Source: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/utrikes/maria-malmer-stenergard-kritiserar-aktivister-efter-gretas-gripande

This is something that I see a lot and it's irks me the wrong way every time. I know that people on the internet get emotional, but we gotta stop abusing words. The word hostage describes something very specific, in this case it's this:

a person held by one party in a conflict as a pledge pending the fulfillment of an agreement (source)

Basically a hostage is a prisoner that is specifically held captive to be used as a bargaining chip.

This is precisely the reason why the hostages taken by Hamas are called as such. They were taken with intention of using them to cut a deal with Israel later on. But in this case, Israel is very unlikely to use the people on this boat to negotiate any deal, we don't even know if they're even going to be detained or released once the ship gets routed to one Israel's ports. But if Israel does detain after the fact then that's just imprisonment.

You mean this suffragette movement?

Yes. It was a peaceful movement. Their goals weren't achieved through violence.

Why is India partitioned, then?

The goal of the movement was to end British rule over the subcontinent, and they achieved that goal.

Kind of a special case; the USSR collapsed all by itself and didn’t try to oppose them.

You're not giving these people their credit. The Soviet Union was filled with violent factions that wanted to prevent dissolution and the end of communism. These people managed to literally sing their way to independence.

I mean companies can force him out by themselves if they're pressured enough. Also all companies make unsuccessful business bets. What matters is that from a neutral third person point of view, these companies aren't doing anything that they're not supposed to be doing. They're putting sectors of the American economy in danger of collapse, they're not committing crimes left and right, and their services are satisfactory for most people.

Please do. I would very much not see a clown on my feed who accuses others of things they don't even understand.

Ronald Reagan was a terrible politician, but he absolutely nailed this quote:

Perhaps you and I have lived too long with this miracle to properly be appreciative. Freedom is a fragile thing and it’s never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by way of inheritance; it must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation, for it comes only once to a people. And those in world history who have known freedom and then lost it have never known it again.