Gorilladrums @ Gorilladrums @lemmy.world

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3

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291

Joined

2 yr. ago

The soldiers weren’t given orders to “murder anyone that moves” or else the tank would’ve run that guy over. Where did you get that?

Tank man stood in front of the tank on June 5th, the massacre happened on June 4th.

I don’t think anyone even died in Tiannamen Square itself. Battles happened in other parts of the city as soldiers defended themselves, though. It wasn’t peaceful like you said earlier, soldiers died.

What was that again about me making shit up? It sounds to me like you're getting high off you're own supply.

but at least get the facts straight.

You know what, that's a good idea. Let's get the facts straight, shall we? Go ahead and post your sources that actually support your claims. Shouldn't be a hard thing to do if they're facts like you say. I'll be waiting.

And of course similar things happened in the US. We bombed an apartment building. There was the Kent shootings, the Haymarket massacre, Whiskey Rebellion, the incident in Waco, the assassination of Fred Hampton, hell, cop shootings happen every year. Not to mention hundreds of years of slavery where who knows how many were killed.

Lol you really had to do mental gymnastics to come up with any examples at all. I mean you had to go all the back to 1791 to the Whiskey Rebellion (if we're going back that far then look up the Taiping Rebellion) to find something and then used the Waco Seige of the Branch Davidians cult as an example. The only relevant example you have is the Kent state shooting, and even that's from 1970 and only 4 people were killed. Even then, I'm honest enough to acknowledge that this event was indeed bad and should be condemned.

And no, Mao is not worse than Hitler.

Highly debatable. Mao has a very good case to top Hitler. He killed way more people and he was just as ruthless. Mao tops Hitler as the worst dictator of the 20th century.

Mismanagement leading to famines is bad and the Cultural Revolution went too far in some places, and China acknowledges those mistakes btw

Somewhere between 40 and 80 million people died under Mao's reign. That can't brushed off with an "oopsies". Also, China still hails this guy as a national hero even though his successor, Deng Xiaoping (who's responsible for the Tiananmen square massacre), had to literally do a de-Maoization like Khrushchev did with de-Stalinization to save the country from collapse.

but they don’t compare to the targeted genocides, holocaust, and wars of Hitler

Don't get it twisted, Hitler is one of the most evil men in history. There's a reason why he reached infamy in history. I'm just pointing out that he wasn't without rivals during the 20th century, and Mao is one of the very few people with a legitimate case as being the shittiest human of that century.

Plus, the US has done all those things

Wow, you are slow. It's not a competition. The reason why I brought up those things about China was to demonstrate no matter what examples are brought up about the US, China has an endless bag of atrocities to match or even exceed. That's not the point because nobody is arguing which country has the worse history, the point of contention was that the person that I replied to originally claimed that the US today is worse than China today when it comes to things like Tienanmen Square massacre and their examples had no relevance to their claim at all.

You say you acknowledge the bad the US has done and then ignore all of them to make it sound like China is the worst places to have ever existed

You don't need to have a ledger of condemnations so tankies can be satisfied with their perceived proportionate amount of criticism being applied towards China or any country. If an event is worthy of criticism then it should be criticized, simple as. If you're seething over people condemning an atrocity and drowning yourself in fallacies like whataboutism, then there's a good chance you either support the atrocities or the entity responsible for committing them.

If you made a post about the Kent State shooting, for example, right now on Lemmy or anywhere else really, you're not going to get a hoard of Americans or non Americans in the comments crying about "BuT wHaT aBoUt ChInA hYpOcRiTeS?!?", they're just going to condemn the event and move on... as they should. But when it comes to doing the same thing for a country like China or Russia, you will always get a hoard of tankies defending the reprehensible acts and crying hypocrisy... even though they themselves are hypocrites.

All you’ve proved is you consume propaganda uncritically and without context.

Ironic coming from you

Ah yes, the state is paying me to call out idiots on Lemmy for using fallicious argumentation and inconsistent logic. Which state is paying me? Who knows, but that's the fun of making up random baseless accusations when you have nothing of value to provide.

The only difference is that people are actually honest about all of these conflicts. They acknowledge who is a fault and what has actually happened. You lack that honesty, hence why you're using the whataboutism fallacy here to keep dismissing criticism and distracting from the arguments being made instead of addressing them directly. You know you can't defend the evils that Russia is committing on their own merits, and so you resort to fallacies. If you were able to then would've just owned up to the fact that you're piece of shit who supports the evils that Russia is committing, but you're not arguing in good faith.

That's a wild assumption you just made up based on literally nothing. But the fact that you need to make up such assumptions is ironic, because it shows that yourself are a hypocrite. You support these atrocities and the regimes who committed them and so you perceive people calling out these acts as unjustified "hostility" rather warranted criticism. Since you're admitting that you don't actually care about the atrocities being committed, that means the only purpose you would bring up anything to do with "liberal institutions" is to be fallacious, which is exactly the case here.

The entire purpose of bringing up entirely irrelevant subjects is to distract from the original issue and dismiss criticism. There's no context, there's no argument, there's no point. You're simply mad that the regime you support is being criticized and as a desperate attempt to divert attention away from the criticism, you bring up irrelevant topics and accuse people of being hypocrites for their criticism of the original topic... even that doesn't negate the validity of their criticism whatsoever.

When people call you out on your fallacious argumentation, they're telling that the logic you're using is inconsistent. If you're actually ignorant enough to not understand what the fallacies are or why they're bad then that's a different issue, but if you're aware what they are and why they're bad and still choose to be annoyed then that means you're disingenuous. It means you're arguing in bad faith from the get go, which is an indication that the beliefs you are trying to defend are flawed to the point where you can't defend them on their own merits.

Jews lived in these countries not as equal citizens with full rights, but as second class citizens who had to endure centuries of oppression. There's a reason why the moment Israel formed, all these countries committed some of the worst pogroms in history and expelled their Jewish populations. Around 1 million Jews in the muslim had their property, communities, and citizenship stripped from them for the crime of being Jewish... even though they had no connection to Israel whatsoever. Since Israel was the only place to take to them in, that's where they ended up going.

Also it's inaccurate to say "Arabs hate Jews" because Arab is an ethnicity. There are a lot of Arab Jews and being Arab is not tied to any ideology. It's more accurate to say "mulsims hate Jews" because are tied to an ideology, islam, and the islamic scriptures are very explicit that Jews are evil and should be either killed or treated as second class citizens... hence how the Jews in the countries above were living in such unjust conditions in the countries above prior to the creation of Israel.

It's spooky how accurate this analogy is

You're so dishonest it's unbelievable. Nobody is arguing with you on your political opinions, that's not the point of contention. You can think whatever you want, that's your problem and right. What I was saying is that normal people don't think about politics 24/7 like terminally online Lemmy users. People treat politics like they do any other subject. There are times when they think about, talk about it, and take action on it, and times where they don't. It's really simple as that.

This idea that people you deem as non privileged think about politics all day everyday is not reality. That's an out of touch assumption that you made up to justify an inaccurate worldview you have. People not thinking about politics 24/7 doesn't mean they don't care about politics or that they ignore politics, it means that there's more to life than politics. People who do spend all their time talking and thinking about politics aren't normal, those are zealots, they're fanatics. This is not a new or controversial, this was literally always the case.

I can smell your parents disappointment in you from across the screen

Hey, look @Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub, you caught one!

Whataboutism is the appeal to hypocrisy fallacy you moron. That's literally what you're doing.

China killed a bunch of student in the 80ies? Big whoops

I cannot imagine being such a miserable, evil, and braindead moron that I would say shit like this. You're scum.

spreads misinformation

gets called out for it

"no no it was a 4d chess move to make you look dumb, I'm full of shit I swear"

Yeah okay buddy

No, fuck off moron. Russia started this war, they're committing a genocide, and they're 100% responsible for ALL of it. Trying to "both sides" the most obviously one sided conflict in the world by blaming the victims for defending themselves puts you and your shitty ideology in the same tier as nazis, which sounds about right for Marxism. You support and defend Russia's imperialist genocide, you're morally reprehensible.

You're being dishonest. You didn't provide any context or made any remark regarding framing or context. In fact, you made no argument at all. You just brought up an entirely irrelevant subject for the sole purpose to distract from the original issues and dismiss the criticism being brought up by appealing to hypocrisy. It's literally the textbook definition of the fallacy.

Same deal when we get the occasional zionist talking about the plight of gay Palestinians.

This is a good example, you're exactly like them in this case.

Which is nice, but it's still sad to think that such sad creatures exist in the first place

Netanyahu was always unpopular both in Israel and outside Israel.

Opinions across the world started shifting after he renewed efforts to occupy most of Gaza. Hamas is a terrorist organization and everybody acknowledges that, but they're defeated at this point. Israel has decisively won this war months ago. They get to have virtually any of their demands met with any ceasefire deal they agree to from getting back the rest of the hostages to having access to the Philadelphi corridor to expelling Hamas from Gaza.

There was a deal a couple of months ago that they agreed to and everybody thought this war was finally coming to an end. Fighting stopped, hostages were being released, and everybody acknowledged that Israel won. People were excited that war was finally coming to an end and people were debating what a post Hamas Gaza should look like and how reconstruction should be handled. However, Netanyahu single-handedly scrapped this deal and restarted the war for no reason.

Now, people are just tired of him and the war. Not just around the world, but also in Israel. A whooping 70% of Israelis have an unfavorable view of him and his government. Israel won't be taken seriously again until he's removed from power, and everybody wants him out. However, he knows that he's going to get his ass thrown in jail the moment this war is over and so he's never going to end it.

You will never find anybody as morally reprehensible as Marxists who support and defend Russia's genocide in Ukraine. Go fuck yourself Russian shill

They're so desperate they literally buying shit from North Korea at a premium

I'm sure you think of yourself as this

Least braindead Marxist

It's ironic how everything you said here applies directly to you.