GarbageShootAlt2 @ GarbageShootAlt2 @lemmy.ml

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2 yr. ago

Dude, setting aside what we think of Hamas, I wasn't talking about Hamas, I was talking about people in America protesting against genocide being branded as terrorist sympathizers.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/07/25/statement-by-vice-president-kamala-harris-3/

She "knows what's up," and has self-consciously chosen to side with genocide, branding all of its opponents terrorists or terrorist sympathizers.

Have they been supported by AIPAC? Surely, but them personally getting a check from a foreign lobby that is mysteriously allowed to exist in US politics is not a good explanation for what is going on. Israel serves a purpose extending America's power in the Middle East and terrorizing its rivals. If Israel was against America's interests in the region, AIPAC wouldn't exist and America's lavish cooperation with Israel would not be happening.

It's silly to act like individual values are some sacred, unassailable thing gifted to everyone's soul by the heavens, rather than something that came from a combination of inborn human traits and memories*, i.e. they are something that is contingent, changing, and in no way above being questioned.

It's also silly to act like it makes sense to just have a blanket acceptance of something if it's an "individual value" even though, when we look at the world, individual values can sometimes be extremely fucked up and we shouldn't allow people who would enact those values to abuse with impunity.

*"memories" is simplistic, but I don't think it is catastrophically so.

It's not "embracing Trump", that's what liberals like to frame it as for rhetorical effect. Calling it accelerationism is just willful ignorance towards what the intentions of the approach are. It's a strategy oriented around timescale that is more than just this election (in stark contrast to the alarmist "Most important election of our lifetime" rhetoric of liberals) because there will be more elections and unconditional subservience to the dems in this election will encourage their lurching still further to the right in future elections.

The purpose is to make the Democrats choose between concessions to the left or letting the Republicans win. It's not difficult to understand.

Understood, as you were 🫡

This is deeply disingenuous, because you've been continuously arguing that the Democrats are better on those things when you rattle off your lists in various conversations here. Like, I can sit here all day and think of issues and go through the histories both administrations have with them, but it won't matter that both Trump and Biden did fuck all about trans rights* but you can just keep throwing progressive issues at a wall until I get tired of responding, despite having no ability to prove shit about them.

And come the next conversation with anyone else, you'll keep pretending that Harris is better about immigration and so on, I suppose as a bluff that the people you're talking to don't know any better. It must be comfortable to not believe in anything while playing useful idiot for the Democrats.

*no I don't give a shit about the enlistment thing and neither should you, plus it gets reversed back and forth by executive order anyway

Cuba, Vietnam, China, USSR, hell even the dprk. Look at life expectancy, literacy, infant and maternal mortality, extreme poverty metrics, worker self management systems, and moving from dictatorship to soviet style proletarian democracy

You are factually correct, but this is rhetorically a poor point to make unless your goal is to have the argument be an endless quagmire of tangents upon tangents (which I don't think it is). Clearly you would generally know better than I, but I can't help but feel that a simpler answer like:

"The liberal revolutions against feudalism broadly had a progressive character, though feudalists and conservatives generally portrayed them as barbarous, traitorous, heretical, etc. Socialist revolutions were likewise broadly progressive, with their rightward opponents portraying them the same way"

Would be a good way to touch on this point generally without just begging them so directly to vomit every red scare myth and reactionary reddit thread they've ever seen at you, or just leave because those things went through their mind and that was enough.

Their Ukraine bit was obvious bait. In a context where there were actually onlookers left, it's bad bait to take because you can see how they then used your response as an excuse to pretty much completely ignore everything else you said and go "muh tankies".

Kamala doesn't want to help the climate, liberal. She even wants to expand fracking! She just gives it lip service because that's all your fucking "harm reduction" amounts to in most cases, people using different words to characterize the same agenda. It's the same for immigration and it's the same for Israel.

All your "strategy" is possibly capable of is "reducing harm" (read: changing the language used) but never actually gaining ground and then fucking dying all the same.

PSL does plenty of organizing. They're clearly one of the better socialist orgs in the US.

Also that's not what accelerationism means

Telegram is awful, but that's mainly because it is readily bent towards the interests of malicious state actors like we see here. This headline is produced by two things being bad, not just one.

Ah, I see! Please, instruct me further: For how long will it be permissible to blame the Kamala regime for their crimes? For surely there will be a new Most Important Election of Our Lifetime next election, as there has been for at least the last three (and arguably the last dozen or more), and by this logic it would be terrible to imperil the that election as well. Shall it be whenever the new Republican we're calling Uniquely Fascist announces their candidacy, and/or when the media instructs us that an already-announced candidate turns out to be Uniquely Fascist? The election cycles seem to be starting earlier and earlier each year, so I don't expect you could produce a date for when it becomes unacceptable to state obvious facts, but surely something must tell us the window of time it is Ideal!

You must understand, this is all so very complicated, so it's good to have an Adult in the Room to help out us children.

Tell me, does the ACA save and improve lives of the average person: yes or no?

The ACA is an excellent example because it's the Dems operating at the peak of their faux-progressivism. It did help some people in an immediate sense because it had some useful concessions in it, but its basic function of being state-mandated private healthcare entrenched the power of private interests, allowing them to fight all the better against advocates of universal healthcare, while conservatives can accuse anyone wanting something better of trying to roll back the marginal improvements that the ACA's concessions brought (and they have been doing this, in case you haven't followed the last few Dem primaries).

right now is the exact wrong time to be raising alarm bells and turning blame toward the Biden Administration. It’s not that they haven’t made mistakes;

They haven't made mistakes. What they are doing is deliberate. They are not some oafish giant who tripped and fell and flattened a section of Gaza. They are continuously supplying bombs of all kinds to a military committing the one of the most well-documented genocides in history.

What's the correct schedule for blaming the material facilitator of a genocide for their actions, if you wouldn't mind instructing us plebeians according to your enlightened timetables? Is it the two years following an election but not the two years beforehand?

Well, you are obviously def dumb and blind. I am german.

I think we've identified which group has the greater deficit when it comes to evaluating Israel's actions, and it's not the people that you sneer are disabled.

The Republicans want to mass deport immigrants

They do, but the Democrats have deported more and are continuing to do so right now, with no sign of Harris wanting to do different from Biden on that or any front other than having a Republican in her cabinet (by her own characterization, the biggest difference between the two of them is her wanting that last thing).

This is that classic thing where the kids in cages under Obama "didn't exist" until Trump entered office and finally there was an incentive by a branch of the media to report on it, though they did so only to blame Trump for it and not doing a thing to hurt their sacred cow Obama. You keep chanting "grow up" like it's some own, but it seems plain that you are basing it off of your perception of the "Adults in the Room," the Dems and their media lackeys, with any substantial break from them and their professed ideology representing immaturity by the very fact.

Those wealthy people, even taking the religious motivation thing completely at face value, are paupers next to the MIC, and Israel is furthermore vital to protecting US geopolitical interests in the region, take it from the President.

while Biden/Harris/Walz support Israel defending itself within its borders but don’t support genocide.

This needs to be a joke. Is Gaza part of Israel now?

There's nothing about men in Korea being sexist that makes it worth supporting people who maliciously spread racial stereotypes or TERFism.