Five @ Five @slrpnk.net

Admin at Slrpnk.net

---

Read more

Posts

750

Comments

332

Joined

2 yr. ago

Moderating

---

Israel-Hamas War: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

I've had a post from Mondoweiss, a progressive publication headed by Jewish people critical of Israel, pulled by a Lemmy mod. Not for a problem with any of the article's content, of course, but because mediabiasfactcheck put the publication in the same category as Stormfront.

QUESTIONABLE SOURCE

A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency, and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for the purpose of profit or influence (Learn More). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very untrustworthy and should be fact-checked on a per-article basis. Please note sources on this list are not considered fake news unless specifically written in the reasoning section for that source. See all Questionable sources.

Overall, we rate Mondoweiss Left Biased and Questionable based on the promotion of antisemitic misinformation.

The ADL has attacked Mondoweiss in the past, and mediabiasfactcheck mentions the ADL in its justification for its classification. This is not just harmful to the credibility of the ADL, but destructive to a much wider infrastructure for protecting Jewish people.

Eva Borgwardt said it well:

We’re seeing a genuine rise in antisemitic attacks and white nationalist, white supremacist, antisemitic hate and violence. When white nationalism is on the rise, to cheapen the accusation of antisemitism by applying it to Palestinian rights advocates, including Jews, is incredibly irresponsible and dangerous.

!landback@slrpnk.net

I'm not arguing or debating with you. That's not what I've done, and I won't do it. I'm talking past you.

while glorifying the other

I hope everyone who reads your words can recognize that you're mischaracterizing my statements, and acting in bad faith. Anyone who encounters this exchange can use it as evidence that you are not worth serious engagement.

I don't think you're as dense as you pretend to be. But for anyone deceived by straw-manning and performative confusion used as a rhetorical trick, let me be clear.

Using human shields has a specific an codified meaning; all humanitarian organizations who have investigated Hamas or any other Palestinian defense organization have found no evidence of this war crime. International law also makes clear that even if an armed force is improperly using civilian objects to shield itself, its opponent is still required to protect civilians from disproportionate harm.

Killing civilians is wrong. It is wrong when Hamas does it, it is therefore much more wrong when Israel, which has more resources and claims moral superiority, does it on a much larger scale, not just through retaliation bombings the last few weeks, but from before the seige of Gaza going back to the Nakba - massacring civilians, assisting their allies in massacring civilians, poisoning wells, using siege tactics to create an open-air prison and starvation conditions in Gaza, murdering activists, protesters, and journalists by the dozens. In their most obscene moments Israel has murdered children playing on a beach near a hotel populated by international journalists, and protected those murderers with their highest courts, but even more insidious is the culture of arbitrary detention and imprisonment of palestinian children. Not only does the IDF show complete disregard for Palestinian life when choosing their bombing targets, the inhabitants of Gaza rely on potable water and electricity from Israel -- and now the Israeli authorities have them cut off. They have built an apartied system, and have engaged in collective punishment.

[Graph demonstrating the difference in scale of civilian deaths by the IDF and the lopsided human toll the Palestinian people have paid over the conflict]

As a commenter living in the west, my opinion has little influence on the tactics of Islamic authoritarians. Israel is much more sensitive to western public opinion. We are complicit with Israel's crimes if we do not resist.

Hamas has little in common with the French Resistance. But the Palestinians are just as human as the people of Oradour-sur-Glane, and collective punishment is wrong whether it is done by Israel's criminal leaders trying to distract attention from their political blunders, or Nazis. Apologia for collective punishment and disregard for human life is justification for fascism.

All Copcars Are Ballotboxes!

Is missing the point your best debate tactic?

EDIT: Reposted higher for visibility:

I don't think you're as dense as you pretend to be. But for anyone deceived by straw-manning and performative confusion used as a rhetorical trick, let me be clear.

Using human shields has a specific an codified meaning; all humanitarian organizations who have investigated Hamas or any other Palestinian defense organization have found no evidence of this war crime. International law also makes clear that even if an armed force is improperly using civilian objects to shield itself, its opponent is still required to protect civilians from disproportionate harm.

Killing civilians is wrong. It is wrong when Hamas does it, it is therefore much more wrong when Israel, which has more resources and claims moral superiority, does it on a much larger scale, not just through retaliation bombings the last few weeks, but from before the seige of Gaza going back to the Nakba - massacring civilians, assisting their allies in massacring civilians, poisoning wells, using siege tactics to create an open-air prison and starvation conditions in Gaza, murdering activists, protesters, and journalists by the dozens. In their most obscene moments Israel has murdered children playing on a beach near a hotel populated by international journalists, and protected those murderers with their highest courts, but even more insidious is the culture of arbitrary detention and imprisonment of palestinian children. Not only does the IDF show complete disregard for Palestinian life when choosing their bombing targets, the inhabitants of Gaza rely on potable water and electricity from Israel -- and now the Israeli authorities have them cut off. They have built an apartied system, and have engaged in collective punishment.

[Graph demonstrating the difference in scale of civilian deaths by the IDF and the lopsided human toll the Palestinian people have paid over the conflict]

As a commenter living in the west, my opinion has little influence on the tactics of Islamic authoritarians. Israel is much more sensitive to western public opinion. We are complicit with Israel's crimes if we do not resist.

Hamas has little in common with the French Resistance. But the Palestinians are just as human as the people of Oradour-sur-Glane, and collective punishment is wrong whether it is done by Israel's criminal leaders trying to distract attention from their political blunders, or Nazis. Apologia for collective punishment and disregard for human life is justification for fascism.

French resistance during the second world war knew the Nazis would retaliate; they still operated and hid within the civilian population. There are former towns in France where only crumbling stone, abandoned cars, and a plaque to the dead remains, a vow to never rebuild and never forget. Everyone was killed and their homes burned in reprisal for maquis activity.

Are you saying the French women and children murdered by Nazis are the fault of the French partisans? Is this a grey moral area for you?

I'm not saying the details of it are not complicated.

History is always complicated

Present events are always complicated

But the way this is reported in the western media is as though one needs a PhD in Middle Eastern studies to understand the basic morality of holding a people in a situation in which they don't have basic rights including the right that we treasure most the franchise the right to vote and then declaring that state a democracy

is actually not that hard to understand.

-- Ta-Nehisi Coates

Noted, thanks.

The IDF also murdered 972 Magazine journalist Khalil Abu Yahia.

Thanks for sharing -- I've crossposted it to Documentaries.

Don't confuse support for Palestinians as support for Hamas.

Which supporters? This is a boon to Vladimir Putin, as world attention and aid to Israel comes at a cost to support for Ukraine.

By escalating the conflict to a genocidal ground war, Israel's criminal leaders may have doomed not only Israelis, but the people of Ukraine as well.

Slavoj Zizek gave a compelling speech along these lines. The reaction from the crowd and the heckling are really revealing about how divorced even progressive audiences have become from humanity.

Thanks for the clarification. I've updated my comment to be more accurate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_National_Authority

In the Palestinian legislative elections on 25 January 2006, Hamas emerged victorious and nominated Ismail Haniyeh as the Authority's Prime Minister. However, the national unity Palestinian government effectively collapsed, when a violent conflict between Hamas and Fatah erupted, mainly in the Gaza Strip. After the Gaza Strip was taken over by Hamas on 14 June 2007, the Authority's Chairman Mahmoud Abbas dismissed the Hamas-led unity government and appointed Salam Fayyad as Prime Minister, dismissing Haniyeh. The move wasn't recognized by Hamas, thus resulting in two separate administrations – the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and a rival Hamas government in the Gaza Strip.

'The Jews' are not committing war crimes in Gaza, the IDF is. Assigning actions of a related political body to an entire ethnic group is racism.

David: fascistic government of Palestine (also called Hamas)

I think @Deceptichum's point is that Hamas isn't and has never been the government of Palestine, and didn't exist in the Gaza Strip before 1988. Calling the various Palestinian organizations that opposed Israel's aggression against Arabs 'Hamas' and labeling them collectively as 'fascist' seems absurd, given Israel is the other candidate in the analogy.

Your analogy is terrible, not because people don't understand the subversion, but because you're wrong about basic facts.

The Arabs want Israel gone and the Jews killed

I don't appreciate your casual racism.