EngineerGaming @ EngineerGaming @feddit.nl

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2 yr. ago

I know I am just a normie who doesn't really know internal workings of them... But in my experience, XMPP is just easier to host, the servers are lighter, they don't store everything they touch forever like Matrix does, and OMEMO doesn't break like Matrix's encryption. Synapse would be probably impossible to run on my VPS, while Conduit and Dendrite are not as full-featured.

Molly also has some quality-of-life improvements - such as allowing to enter a device pairing link manually instead of scanning a QR code (thus allowing use in a VM for registration without a smartphone), or being able to use a generic Socks proxy instead of Signal's own solution. Not only does that allow running Signal over Tor without using Orbot as a "VPN", but is also more versatile (I wouldn't want to set up a separate proxy just for Signal, and also their implementation is apparently inferior to some advanced obfuscation solutions).

P.S. Also idk if this has been fixed, but Signal's app bugged out during registration and got stuck on "no google services" warning on my Graphene device, yet Molly went through flawlessly.

Yeah, true! However, you also have to trust their server not to log what is available to them (including your whole social graph), while with XMPP you can SSH into your server and see that its retention is exactly as you expected. But yeah, the issue remains when interacting with other servers - tho even then there the data is more evenly distributed between different servers with different owners.

And I am waiting for a way to use Signal without it ever touching a smartphone) Right now I have a Graphene phone so I can trust it (so Molly works), but before that my phone (like most phones) did not support any degoogled OS. While the laptop (like most laptops can) was running Linux easily. Yet, you have to either use an Android VM or a frustrating command-line client to register!

Here RCS is not even supported on most carriers, and aapparently on some phone models as well (some Chinaphones I think).

Ah, so they normally use SMS between the ecosystems? Then understandanle, although that is still weird as hell because the media on SMS is bad quality (and here would also add a lot to the SMS price).

Yeah, I get your point. I just was pointing out that iPhone users would want to install some messenger for Android family members anyway - so that they don't get charged per each little message (although I've heard that unlimited SMS is common in the US), and have normal-quality media. Or you mean that they'd be still reluctant to install one more app, while the one they already use is bad, like Whatsapp? If we're trusting proprietary software anyway - why trust iMessage over Whatsapp?

Also I doubt a Huawei that cost $100 new would be traded for any iPhone anywhere, lol

To my knowledge, they don't have SD cards - but indeed, you could just load books by wire.

Ah, you mean $100 just for you and then everyone in your family would be able to use it? Still a very steep price but at least you're not forcing anyone else to pay it. I just thought about messaging not just between family members and you, but between other family members as well.

Edit: just realized what else I wanted to say. It's that the iPhone users are used to havung to install separate apps from iMessage anyway - for their friends and family members not on Apple.

Sixty percent still leaves about a half excluded and left without a cheap and convenient way to participate. You think it is fair in any way?

Also a hundred bucks is a very steep price just for a messenger. Even Threema's cheap price is seen as an adoption hurdle, this would make people wonder why you can't just use a free app. Worst-case scanario, they'd just go back to Whatsapp.

You'd want to make adoption as seamless as possible - and yet you're telling people they have to pay a big price (in a crisis time especially) and set some weird bridge up? They would think "Why can't we just use something botherless?"

IDK if this has been fixed, but this summer I was unable to register - it was stuck in a loop warning about lacking Google services (even though it is supposed to work without them, so maybe a coincidence).

Also didn't know about Guardian's repo having it, that's awesome!

But most people would be excluded because they don't have an iPhone or even funds to buy one! And would have no real way to participate! Maybe some older secondhand models would go below $300, I don't know, but it would be weird to expect a person to buy a second phone (and an older, more worn-down one at that) just to converse with you. Even $100 is also a pretty high price just to bypass an arbitrary restriction.

There is a reason the most popular messengers are cross-platform. So the aim must be that.

Yeah. For me, Signal's security benefits are counteracted by various other usability issues. Such as not being feature-complete on desktop and not even allowing registration there without workarounds - given that phones are very privacy-invasive by default and far from all can have a privacy-respecting OS installed (while Linux works on pretty much any random computer). Or even on mobile - pushing the user towards Google download with dark patterns, not being on F-Droid, or (at least in my experience) the official app not working at all on my Graphene device (Molly worked perfectly though). Also, from what I've seen, even if you don't mind losing connectivity with other users and would only converse with people on your server anyway (like how I do with my family on XMPP), selfhosting Signal is really hard compared to XMPP, Simplex or even Matrix, even requiring modifying the client app.

I only trust my ebook because I never connect it to the internet)

I got my mother on XMPP - if you set the person's account up, Conversations is as easy to use as Whatsapp or Signal, but doesn't have the central server dependence.

little barrier to entry

$1000+

Yeah, it absolutely is. But just being FOSS does not guarantee that its development would be forked in a sufficient way should something bad happen. Especially since they use Haskell, and I heard that it is not very common thus decreasing the survival chances. Sure hope it is cool enough to still warrant a fork, though.

What the hell did I just read.

I use Simplex and overall happy with it, but since it is so new, would rather not go all-in. It is VC-backed so might eventually enshittify to make a profit.

Yeah. If the contact would be installing a whole new client to communicate with you anyway, why not make it an XMPP one? I got my mom to use it like this.

I did hear that the implementation of the encryption isn't as good as in Signal (and most clients also use an older version of it), but from my understanding - not in any way critically so.