Palestine Crisis Megathread III
Dreamer @ Dreamer @lemmy.ml Posts 75Comments 165Joined 2 yr. ago
Dreamer @ Dreamer @lemmy.ml
Posts
75
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165
Joined
2 yr. ago
While I also not believe that a state should have the legal right to execute anyone as that can be, will be, and has been abused, I believe it is the absolute right of victims (or those who they left behind) to determine the punishment of those who wronged them up to a proportional degree with modifications due to circumstance (i.e. someone stealing because they are poor is given leniency).
How I feel about this execution is dependent on the wishes of the Kyoto fire survivors , victims, and their loved ones.
But since everyone has to serve in the IDF, lots of shitty people are also veterans of the IDF.
I understand where you're coming from, but I think this ignores the fact that Israel's dehumanization and brutalization of Palestinians is a systematic one. It's not just that there are good and bad humans in the IDF as much as it is that negative behavior is encouraged, often unpunished, and rewarded even, whereas positive behavior is disparaged. This has been the case for a long time where soldiers who would try to stop or hold their peers accountable for murders, tortures, and rapes were often turned into pariahs and be given death threats and the like.
With that said, I do wholeheartedly agree with everything else that you have said. You raise some really good questions.
NYPD is investigating claims that the chemical unleashed on these students is “skunk”, an agent developed in Israel and used as a crowd control weapon, most commonly in the occupied West Bank. SJP said the chemicals were sprayed by two students who are former Israeli soldiers, who mixed in with the crowd by wearing Palestinian keffiyehs. The Guardian could not verify this claim, and the NYPD and Columbia did not directly respond to questions about the identity of the perpetrators. According to a statement from Columbia, “the alleged perpetrators of the attack have been identified and immediately banned from campus while law enforcement’s investigation proceeds”.
If it ends up being true that the perpetrators were IDF veterans. . . were they so used to doing this bullshit with impunity back in Palestine that they thought they could just get away with this scot free?
Except both don't need to. Israel literally has the concept of "New Historians" because Israeli historians felt the need to correct the clearly fabricated history of Israel's founding where they finally admitted that ethnic cleansing took place, but then a majority of them decided to justify it as a necessary evil so that a Jewish state can exist. Israel has a track record of constantly shifting their story and making unsubstantiated claim after claim which are contradicted time and time again by either evidence found by third parties or themselves.
The Palestinian cause on the other hand has been consistent in their claims, and have been backed up from multiple parties including Palestinian witnesses, Israeli witnesses, Independent journalists, Israeli journalists, Israeli veterans, Israeli historians. Anyone who has been following this conflict in earnest would know that there are no two sides; there is only the oppressor and the oppressed, the colonizer and the colonized.
Dr. Gabor Maté, Ilan Pappe, and Norman Finkelstein are just three prominent Jewish academics critical of Israel and Zionism; two of which are ex-Zionists who became anti-Zionist when they realized what Zionism entailed. Look them up and see what they have to say.
Then you have ex-IDF soldiers like Eran Efrati who have become disillusioned with Israel and Zionism after realizing how the soldiers are being used to create and enforce systematic oppression. You also have testimonies of war crimes from IDF veterans such as Yosef Diamant which detail the torture and rape of civilians since 1948, none of which has gone punished. In fact, Israel pardoned themselves of all war crimes a year later.
There's also Breaking the Silence, an Israeli NGO built so that IDF veterans have a place to go past the censor and talk about their experiences. Searching up "human shields" and "ambulances" yields damning results.
Let's not forget the Israeli journalists that have been documenting crime after crime such as Yuval Abraham who routinely publishes his work in 972+ Magazine, and independent magazine established by four Israeli writers.
I could go on and on. I have a feeling that you're not even going to bother looking anything up, since you parroted the 1400 dead that even the Israeli government has since changed two months ago, so here is just one source. You can find the rest on your own until you admit that your head is buried deep in the sand.
Breaking the Silence
Israeli NGO where IDF veterans testify their experiences. Some examples:
You know what? I'm feeling a little bit generous, here's two more:
Israeli Soldier's Explosive Tell-All: "Palestinians are right to resist"
Tantoura Ethnic Cleansing Testimony - Yosef Diamant
Whole-ass documentary if you want.
To make a statement as idiotic as this one, you must really have your head buried in the sand. If you are going to insist on readily accepting whatever garbage comes out of pro-Zionist media, at the very least use Israel's revised death toll of <1200 since November. This revision was due to Israel being unable tell apart the militant and civilian casualties apart after burning them to crisp when enacting the Hannibal doctrine.
The Israeli soldiers stormed the building. “They banged on our door. My husband … told them we are all civilians. They took him to another apartment. I followed them, pleading with them to let him go because we are civilians,” she said.
“They beat me and my daughters. They put us women in one place and threatened us with guns and knives. They made us strip. They searched us, insulting us using the most terrible words,” Salem added.
The soldiers disregarded their pleas and proceeded to “execute” all the men they rounded up outside.
“My husband was one of the 19 men killed in this building. They ordered them to bend down and executed them. They killed them all.”
The footage shows the bodies of men with the entry holes of bullets in their back.
After the men were killed, the apartment that Salem and her daughters were sheltering in was hit, one of her daughters told Al Jazeera, killing her three-year-old sister, Nada.
“I was holding my sister in my arms. Then the shelling resumed. Nada was hit. She made some soft sounds. She asked for some water.”
“I thought she was crying. But she was dying. Shrapnel had entered her head, eyes and neck. My sister tried to carry her body but she fell from her arms at the door.”
Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor
January 7, 2024: In Israeli army camps, Gazan detainees subjected to torture and degrading treatment
February 12, 2024: “They brought Israeli civilians to watch our nude torture”: IDF torture of Palestinian prisoners is turned into entertainment for Israeli viewers
March 4, 2024: Israeli tanks have deliberately run over dozens of Palestinian civilians alive
Media Bias
Analyzing the bias in BBC reporting in Palestine
Hijacking truth: How OSINT in Gaza fell prey to groupthink
Western coverage of Gaza: A textbook case of coloniser’s journalism
Israel’s war on Gaza triggered a war on free speech in the West
Why, as a Palestinian American journalist, I had to leave the news industry
CNN staff say network’s pro-Israel slant amounts to ‘journalistic malpractice’
How the news cycle misses the predominant violence in Israel-Palestine
---Gaza Continued---
January 10, 2024: WHO facing ‘near insurmountable challenges’ in Gaza aid delivery
January 10, 2024: Photos: Terrified people flee Israeli attacks at Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital
January 11, 2024: Gaza daily deaths exceed all other major conflicts in 21st century: Oxfam
January 13, 2024: Shot in ‘cold blood’: Killing of Palestinian grandmother sparks outcry
January 13, 2024: Blackout in Gaza’s Al-Aqsa Hospital as fuel runs out, babies at high risk
January 17, 2024: Israel ramps up attacks on Khan Younis as aid for Gaza arrives in Egypt
January 17, 2024: Al Jazeera’s Gaza bureau chief Wael Dahdouh in Qatar for medical treatment
January 18, 2024: Maghazi residents left reeling after Israeli forces withdraw
January 19, 2024: UN says Palestinians detained by Israeli forces humiliated, beaten
January 20, 2024: Palestinians accuse Israeli forces of executing 19 civilians in Gaza
January 29, 2024: Two brothers shot by Israeli forces in Khan Younis, white flag ignored
January 30, 2024: No rest for Gaza’s dead with rushed burials, bodies desecrated
February 2, 2024: UN estimates 17,000 Gaza children left unaccompanied amid Israel’s war
February 6, 2024: Israel’s assault on Gaza, through Mona’s eyes
February 9, 2024: Israeli bombs target Gaza’s overcrowded Rafah
February 9, 2024: Israeli snipers kill 21 civilians outside Gaza’s besieged Nasser Hospital
February 21, 2024: Israeli forces kill, wound Palestinians waiting for food aid in Gaza
February 22, 2024: Israel bombards Gaza’s Rafah as ground offensive looms
February 29, 2024: ‘Massacre’: Dozens killed by Israeli fire in Gaza while collecting food aid
March 14, 2024: ‘Death trap’: Israeli forces kill six in new attack on Gaza aid seekers
March 15: 2024: ‘Massacre’: Israel forces attack crowds waiting for aid in Gaza, killing 21
March 23, 2024: At least 19 reported killed as Israeli forces fire on Gaza aid seekers
This shit reads like satire. It's a clown world we live in.
Inside the military base, the Palestinians were held in clusters of around 100. According to the testimonies, they were handcuffed and blindfolded the whole time, and permitted to rest only between midnight and 5 a.m.
One of the detainees in each cluster, whom the soldiers chose because he knew Hebrew and was given the title “Shawish” (a slang term for a servant or subordinate), was the only one without a blindfold. The former detainees explained that the soldiers guarding them had green laser flashlights that they used to mark anyone who moved, changed position because of pain, or made a sound. The Shawish brought these detainees to soldiers standing on the other side of the barbed wire fence surrounding the facility, where they were punished.
According to testimonies, the most common punishment was being tied to a fence and having to raise their arms for several hours. Whoever lowered them was taken away by the soldiers and beaten.
“We were tortured all day,” Nidal told +972 and Local Call. “We knelt, head down. Those who didn’t succeed were tied to the fence, [for] two or three hours, until the soldier decided to let him off. I was tied up for half an hour. My whole body was covered in sweat; my hands became numb.
“You can’t move,” Lubad recalled of the rules. “If you move, the soldier points a laser at you and tells the Shawish, ‘Get him out, raise his hands.’ If you put your hands down, the Shawish takes you outside, and the soldiers beat you. I was tied to the fence twice. And I kept my hands up because there were people around me who were really getting hurt. One person came back with a broken leg. You hear the beating and screaming on the other side of the fence. You are afraid to look or peek through the blindfold. If they see you looking, it’s a punishment. They will take you out or tie you to the fence too.”
Another young man released from detention told the media after returning to Gaza that “people were tortured all the time. We heard screaming. They [soldiers] said to us, ‘Why did you stay in Gaza, why didn’t you go to the south?’ And I told them, ‘Why should we go to the south? Our homes still stand, and we are not connected to Hamas.’ They told us, ‘Go down to the south — you celebrated [the Hamas-led attack] on October 7.’”
In one case, Lubad said, a detainee who refused to kneel and lowered his hands instead of keeping them raised was taken behind the barbed wire fence with his hands cuffed. The detainees heard beatings, then heard the detainee cursing a soldier, and then a gunshot. They don’t know if the detainee was actually shot, or whether he is alive or dead; in any case, he did not return for the rest of the time that those we spoke to were held there.
To think that someone would be defiant even in those horrid conditions and the least favorable of positions. A man tied up, posed no realistic threat, yet executed. The mask of arrogance betrayed by fear. I wonder if Goliath too feared David.
That is harrowing, but I'm not surprised.
Also, if you could find the source on that, I would really appreciate it.
Al Jazeera
---West Bank---
October 6: Palestinian killed as Israeli settlers attack West Bank town of Huwara
November 16, 2023: Live on TikTok: Cousin of Palestinian activist beaten by Israeli soldiers
November 22, 2023: Anxious, optimistic: Families of female Palestinian prisoners await release
November 24, 2023: Israel releases Palestinian women and children prisoners under Hamas deal | Photos: Palestinians released from prison reunite with loved ones
November 25, 2023: Family celebrates return of freed Palestinian prisoner Marah Bakeer
November 25, 2023: 39 Palestinian women and children were sent home
November 26, 2023: Israeli forces carry out deadly raids in the West Bank amid Gaza truce
November 26, 2023: Israeli settlers steal Palestinian farmers’ land in occupied West Bank
November 27, 2023: Palestinian killed after Israel prevents medics from helping him
November 28, 2023: Freed Palestinian prisoners report physical abuse in Israeli jails
November 28, 2023: Israel arrests almost as many Palestinians as it has released during truce
November 29, 2023: Jailed without charge: How Israel holds thousands of Palestinian prisoners
November 29, 2023: Hurt, scared but free now. Palestinian boy recalls abuse in Israeli prison
November 29, 2023: 'They Assaulted All The Girls' - Jailed For Posting a Palestinian Flag
November 29, 2023: Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi among those freed as part of truce agreement between Hamas & Israel
November 29, 2023: Israeli forces kill two Palestinian children in occupied West Bank raid | Eight-year-old Adam al-Ghoul and 15-year-old Basel Abu al-Wafa shot dead by israeli soldiers
November 29: ‘Military camp’: Palestinian town of Huwara under 55-day Israeli closure
December 1, 2023: ‘My son was killed on October 6. There was no Hamas’
December 3, 2023: How a Palestinian teen’s release exposed Israeli mistreatment of prisoners
December 5: ‘Massacres await’: Palestinians in Nablus warn of deadly settler attacks
December 6, 2023: West Bank family sees no hope of justice in settler killings
December 9, 2023: Two teenagers killed, 15 detained in Israeli raids in occupied West Bank
December 14, 2023: Casualties mount in occupied West Bank as Israeli forces extend raids
December 20, 2023: ‘No safe place’: Jenin’s Freedom Theatre raided, daubed with Star of David
December 24, 2023: Muted Christmas as Palestinian Christians mourn for Gaza
December 25, 2023: Israel hits Bethlehem in Christmas raids on occupied West Bank
December 27, 2023: Six killed in Israeli strike on refugee camp in occupied West Bank
January 7, 2024: At least nine Palestinians, two Israelis killed in West Bank violence
January 17, 2024: Palestinian shop-owner used as human shield by Israeli forces
January 30, 2024: Two brothers shot by Israeli forces in Khan Younis, white flag ignored
February 2, 2024: ‘Love of my life’: Shot dead, waiting for her husband in the West Bank
March 22, 2024: More than 7,350 West Bank Palestinians arrested by Israel during Gaza war
Al Jazeera
---Gaza---
October 20, 2023: Israel bombs Greek Orthodox Gaza church sheltering displaced people
November 4, 2023: Israeli fire destroys water reservoir in northern Gaza amid dire shortage of clean drinking water
November 6, 2023: Palestinians flee massacre as Israel bombs al-Maghazi refugee camp
November 16, 2023: In Gaza, Ahmad lost his family then his legs to Israel’s bombing
November 17, 2023: ‘We’re alive’, then dead silence: A Gaza family trapped in Israel’s war
November 17, 2023: Dirty secret of Israel’s weapons exports: They’re tested on Palestinians
November 22, 2023: Dozens from same family killed in Gaza as Israel continues bombardment
November 23, 2023: ‘Can regain our soul’: Relief and fear in Gaza ahead of Israel truce
November 26, 2023: Wounded patients left at al-Shifa Hospital face dire conditions | Dire conditions at al-Shifa Hospital revealed during Gaza pause
November 27, 2023: ‘Devastating’: the final hours at Gaza’s besieged Indonesian Hospital
November 27, 2023: ‘We want permanent ceasefire,’ Palestinians in Gaza say as truce extended
November 28, 2023: Gaza family opts to live in ruins of home
November 29, 2023: ‘Save what remains of Gaza’, hospital director says, amid bombing
December 1, 2023: Israeli air strikes pound Gaza as truce with Hamas ends
December 1, 2023: Israel strikes Gaza after truce expires
December 1, 2023: ‘Where to go?’ Palestinians say nowhere safe as Israel resumes Gaza bombing
December 1, 2023: Palestinians flee homes, dig in rubble as Israel resumes strikes on Gaza
December 1, 2023: Gaza aid trucks stranded as Israel-Hamas war resumes
December 1, 2023: ‘Bombing everywhere’: As Israel renews war, my eight-year-old has questions
December 2, 2023: ‘Hell on Earth’ in Gaza: Israel strikes hit Deir el-Balah
December 2, 2023: Photos: More deaths and destruction as Israel targets southern Gaza
December 3, 2023: Over 700 killed in last 24 hours as Israel intensifies strikes | December 3, 2023: From north to south, nowhere safe in Gaza as 700 killed in 24 hours
December 4, 2023: Khan Younis hospital stretched by influx of patients as Israel bombs Gaza
December 4, 2023: No end to suffering of Gaza children as Israeli attacks rage on
December 5, 2023: Searching for survivors after Israeli attack on central Gaza building
December 5, 2023: Israel intensifies strikes on Gaza’s second-largest city
December 6, 2023: Israeli raid kills 22 members of Al Jazeera correspondent’s family in Gaza
December 9, 2023: Photos: Israel bombs Gaza areas it declared safe zones for Palestinians
December 9, 2023: US skips congressional review for emergency sale of tank shells to Israel
December 10, 2023: Nearly 300 killed in Gaza in 24 hours as Hamas, Netanyahu trade threats
December 10, 2023: ‘A hand here, a head there’: Israeli warplanes kill dozens in central Gaza
December 12, 2023: ‘Like we were lesser humans’: Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture
December 24, 2023: Israeli strikes kill UN staff, more than 70 of his extended family in Gaza
December 25, 2023: ‘Massacre’ as Israel steps up Gaza bombardment for Christmas | December 25, 2023: Israel intensifies Gaza strikes, killing 250 Palestinians in 24 hours | December 25, 2023: Gaza’s Maghazi refugee camp in ruins after deadly Israeli attack
January 4, 2024: Hunger hits displaced Palestinians and animals in Gaza zoo
January 4, 2024: Photos: Palestinians flee Nuseirat refugee camp once again amid attacks
January 6, 2024: Safe zones: Israel’s technologies of genocide
January 7, 2024: Hamza, son of Al Jazeera’s Wael Dahdouh, killed in Israeli attack in Gaza
January 8, 2024: Palestinian girl loses her sight and her family in Gaza attack
January 8, 2024: Remembering Issa al-Souri, a little boy killed when Israel bombed a church
January 8, 2024: How a parkour group in Gaza turns war ruins into sporting arenas
#Incursions
December 3, 2023: ‘Death corridor’: The al-Samounis recall terror of ‘safe passage’ in Gaza
December 6, 2023: Two Gaza brothers stripped, jeered at by Israeli army, one taken captive
December 8, 2023: Palestinians detained by Israel in Gaza blindfolded, stripped to underwear
December 13, 2023: Civilians sheltering inside a Gaza school killed execution-style | December 21, 2023: UN calls for probe as Israeli army accused of killing unarmed Palestinians | Demember 26, 2023: Classroom massacre: Survivors say Israel executed innocents in Gaza school
Perspectives
---Videos---
Dr. Gabor Maté (Holocaust Survivor)
Here's an interview regarding recent events.
Katie harper interviews political scientist and activist, Norman Finklestein
At 1:43:50, Finklestein asserts that Israel would bomb a residential area, wait for people to come out and call an ambulance, and then bomb the ambulance.
Katie Harper interviews journalists and political activists regarding recent events.
At 00:24:15, Ali asserts that Israel is willing to shoot their own civilians as evidenced by the Hannibal Directive, verifiable events, and testimonies such as Yasmin Porat's where the IDF was shooting indiscriminately and even fired tank shells into Israeli homes.
Owen Jones speaks about the case filed against Israel by South Africa
---Articles---
Albert Einstein letter to Shepard Rifkin
Opinion | The 'final' downfall of Israel was predicted by Einstein
How I stopped being a cartoonist and became a ‘troll’
We, Jewish students, must not be silent on the genocide in Gaza
Voices from the West Bank: 'They're forcing us into islands'
Breaking the Silence
Israeli NGO where IDF veterans testify their experiences. Some examples:
Testimonies
Israeli Soldier's Explosive Tell-All: "Palestinians are right to resist" - Former IDF soldier talks about how he realized that his actions were perpetuating apartheid, and that Palestinians were right to resist through any means.
Tantoura Ethnic Cleansing Testimony - Yosef Diamant Whole-ass documentary for any interested.
Academic Journals
Beyond Male Israeli Soldiers, Palestinian Women, Rape, and War