Doom @ Doom @ttrpg.network

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Like chess with a pigeon

Roll my God damn eyes.

You're dramatic as hell and it does not highlight the point you're making. When you look at other wars the death toll are far higher because Obama is literally explicitly NOT doing what your foolish ass is saying.

Trump happened because a bunch of bozos like you ate up everything they pushed on Obama and now they know how to slam the news cycle and plant your brain how they want it. Good job buddy you have no idea how to tell reality from crap.

Well to be quite frank with you. The US didn't ratify the literal protocols that talk about protecting victims of conflict. So in all legal senses, they didn't by their own metric. So if you obey the legal system, which I personally don't entirely embrace, no he didn't at all by American legal definitions. Sorry.

Now do I think the military is shitty and does shit? Yes. They're literally a monopoly on violence. If not them, then someone else would be. They're dogs of the state. I would never work for a state in the realm of harming people I think it's disgusting but the world isn't mine to control and some people are out there to hurt you. So what do you do?

Now this drone shit is fuckin dumb because is Obama flying these drones himself and plotting out missions to target the most civilians and innocent he can? Is he googling a list of brown kids to blow p? No. He's listening to his staff and generals and making decisions often with the idea of civilian lives in harms way. Don't believe me?

I think it's roughly 200,000 folks died in the middle east fighting since 2001 to 2023 when they left. That's 20 years. 10k a year average but I'm sure it's not steady or consistent. Afghanistan and Iraq I believe both have a population of 45million roughly so 80million. That's 10k deaths a year per 80 million folks.

In Ukraine alone it's estimated it's estimated to be 70,000. In three years. Population 38million.

In Palestine it's believed to be upwards of 58,000. In two years. Population 5million.

Those are the numbers. So what do you make of it?

You're gonna say war shouldn't happen. Yeah I fuckin agree but the truth is America is at war. And pulling out isn't really the option you imagine it doesn't just end there. They always really weren't bombing like it is perceived, effort was made to reduce casualties on both sides and stability in the area was better with American presence.

It's so easy to piss and shit and pick other people apart but I know you would've done a more shit job. Acting like Obama is the antichrist is fuckin goofy. It's why we have Trump. It's why we don't get progressives because one shows the smallest sign of it and y'all act like they're the devil if they make any errors. Y'all are eating Republican talking points.

LMFAO how is that your take away?

"The worst thing for a (liberal/socialist/leftist/progressive) is another (aforementioned word here)"

That's the famous quote. Progress dies because everyone nitpicks it to deal. Obama wasn't perfect therefore he is Hitler, that is what people think of this as.

Hindsight is 20/20.

But no. There was no criminal charges afoot this is why I'm calling y'all idealists. Do you think this country is or was or is going to be clean enough to do any of that, ever?

Maybe if you do some shady shit too to get it done. But by the book as you're suggesting? No fuckin way.

Then go make it happen? Why can't you?

Cause an entire apparatus is in the way? Go break it then why can't you?

Because it's designed to crush resistance at every turn with a monopoly on violence?

So what do you do besides cry online and accuse people of things they're not you fuckin dolt.

If you're this pissed cause I said Obama is a good president when placed beside contemporaries. You're the bozo.

Literally a socialist. Nice try.

My agenda? The fuck?

You're absolutely idealist. You think back then and now someone can march in and slap a new world that YOU like for everyone. Fuckin goobers.

I'm a socialist you bozo. None of this is what I want. But there's a reason even if you got Sanders or the most socialist socialist on there they wouldn't come out as you imagine. Hindsight is 20/20, no policy passed will ever ONLY help and inevitably the baby crushing machine will never not be running. So what do you do?

None of you are treating this like reality. You're in his shoes. The country is handed to you. You pull out of the middle east, bust in new socialist policies and deflate military spending to fund them? Force affordable housing and open immigration?

Now you lost political influence on oil prices, your policies are hated because whether they work or not people are dumb and angry you changed stuff and you dropped military spending so now the military industrial complex is mad and pays politicians and judges to fight you every step of the way. Good job you got nothing done you're worse than Obama.

It's easy to talk shit. No solution will come of it, not even a worthy consideration. Obama had to manage the largest ship in history while it went through some bullshit and he's black and accused of insane theories like he's piloting the drones himself and laughing as he blows up children.

C'mon man ffs

Every politician is pro corporate? That's how they have any money or political pull ever really.

A bail out and a collapse he didn't orchestrate? Drone strikes in a war he didn't start? Court stacking?

Your opinion of the world is very shallow, if you think he can wave his magic dick around to solve all this you're crazy. Pulling out sounds easy but ask your father it takes strategy and the middle east we pulled out of under Biden was different than the one under Obama or the one under Bush.

You're literally saying what I'm saying. Obama is literally lackluster and that's half of why he's the best we've had in 70 years or more for fuck sake. He's a man, he's not God and he definitely isn't a pedophile or a grifter and he TRIED for things.

Bailing out the bank?

I personally believe the financial system in America is the core of corruption. I also know that corruption is why America has any standard of value. Not saying it's right, just the truth.

In that situation, you just let the boat sink? Because morally it's wrong? We like to pretend there would be no blowback from letting that happen but there would be and not in a good way. So he did what everyone else does, kick the can down the road. What do you do in that instance? Let it die and watch your economy shit the bed because you don't like it or something?

You guys are such idealists man c'mon. This is why progressives don't exist in America.

Lol I don't think you understand and I don't really understand what you're talking about.

Nothing what you're reading is being said. What is being said is what war crime did Bush do that Obama could've even gone after him for without tanking his own political position and also absolutely getting nowhere. Do you think after Nixon any president will face true legal repercussions? On top of that, dunno how old you are, but Bush's whole presidency he was somehow seen as almost a little kid. He would goof, shrug say aw shucks and people would laugh and move on. In no universe I can imagine is Obama getting that guy prosecuted at all.

On top of that, aside from that. I don't think Obama did any war crime. I think people who say that are genuinely uninformed or stupid. That's a Republican fox news adjacent Joe Rogan ass take on Obama's military practices.

Bush has far more casualties, Trump removed the ability to see how much he was drone striking and also illegal used drone strikes against Congress approval.

You're not removing the military industrial complex from America, Obama is not going to be able to stop the war or solve anything really and that is clear in his handling of the situation. They attempted to train up a local force to hold peace which didn't work and they pulled from aggressive military campaigning to drone strikes and policing. Where's the war crime?

The last theater of war we engaged in (the cold war). They're napalming folks by the gallon, slaying babies in Vietnam, overthrowing governments galore and attempting to assassinate De Gaulle, Castro and whoever else they don't like.

Obama appears on the scene after all of this. After the CIA has gone rogue and the military industrial complex is both the heart and lungs of your economy. The war is already happening and your predecessors has made a lot of enemies for you. The fuck do YOU do in that instance? Really put yourself there don't give me some crap liberal socialist answer. I'm a socialist myself, ain't no fuckin way the world is letting me do what I wish to America in his shoes.

No. A president not being a power grabbing shit fuck and stuffing the bench isn't that bad. You're mad at Obama because he didn't cheat? That's not it.

American soldiers aren't the only lives. But again you're not being realistic. Obama does not sit there and control every single thing. He's in meeting with experts feeding him advice, numbers and cost. If I told you this mission risks 0 American lives, this one risks dozens. You're literally making the wrong choice risking your soldiers both politically and morally. The why to the fighting is a whole different question that I think is immature to put on Obama solely.

Again, you're angry someone didn't play dirty. Obama was doing what he could to represent a fair decent president so we don't have a Trump and people like you embracing these stupid talking points are what helped bring us here because now people genuinely believe Obama is just as bad as Bush or Trump so what's the difference, why vote, who cares. And that above all is literally the stupidest ever.

Deporter in chief? Please. He didn't have masked dudes kidnapping Americans and deporting them to God knows where, ICE didn't have the budget it has now, people weren't being bussed to other parts of the country or flown places and used as political pawns cause brown people scary or something.

Was the dude perfect? NO. Would I vote for him again? Maybe in the right election. Are you guys being so drastic in your criticism you're allowing no room for actually seeing the situation clearly? Yes, you're being absolutely obtuse and obnoxious.

What are you talking about exactly? The war?

Lol 100%. Liberals, the left, progressives whatever you wanna call them die because one criticism and folks act like they're basically Hitler or something.

Crabs in a bucket

No drone strikes were a method of war that greatly reduces your rate of casualties.

I'm so serious man think about what you're saying and tell me it isn't a Republican talking point. You think Obama is just flying these drones himself? Scouting the missions himself? Calling up a general and asking if they can swing by and drone strike some folks?

There's a whole military apparatus that transcends presidencies and the public/private sector divide of our system.

It was because the tech evolved and the military missions looked different. Go play modern warfare and go look at Ukraine, the technology changed and so did the culture of war.

I think what you call spineless I'd consider being a decent politician in an indecent politician sphere

Obama isn't without criticism but calling him a war criminal is a bit of an eye roll in my opinion. It's usually about the drone warfare stuff and it is a drum the Republicans banged his entire presidency claiming he was drone striking everything possible. The truth is drone tech advanced in his presidency that allowed different missions to take place that removed soldiers from harms way, you'd probably make the same choice. It wasn't even his war, say we should've pulled out sure but look how poorly things are going now that we have. The war crimes he's accused of are dogpoop compared to the human rights issue that exists now. I'm sorry, I don't think it is the greatest things anyone has done but I just find the Obama is a war criminal argument so silly. Our entire government is a war criminal, this dude was not a warmonger nor did he do anything to escalate fighting. How you gonna dump it all on him?

Prosecuting Bush. For what? War crimes again? Our government has been doing war crimes forever. Every single person in that federal government should be charged. But Obama isn't going to arrest Bush because nothing would've come of it and again, on what exactly? Every judge, lawyer and politician wouldn't support that or respect whatever exactly the war crime was. So why pursue that? So redditors and Facebook dads have less shit to throw?

I'm not saying Obama is the best. Absolutely do not try to act like I have to be completely black or white about very complex issues. You will not put that on me.

But acting like Obama is the boogie man is literally because Republicans and the like have sold that messaging. Obama is a mid politician, I don't think he relishes in human suffering but he seems okay with a degree of it. But he was easily better than Trump, Biden, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, the Nixon baboons, Kennedy and Eisenhower. Carter is the only one who is a better man by a landslide but still not the best politician because he was also "spineless". People only liked Kennedy because he was a liberal who was assassinated. You wanna talk about war crimes? Look up Nixon/Kennedy era.

So yes. Obama is easily without contest best president of my lifetime and over the last 60 or 70 years.

Be real about this stuff.

If that's your biggest gripe I'd say it isn't that bad.

People usually bring up the increase in drone strikes on Obama not realizing he was taking steps to prevent American soldier's death.

He tried to get healthcare, changed his stance on gay marriage and stuck to it.

Obama was fine. I'd even argue good compared to his contemporaries.

It kinda should be a tool of control though? The world isn't nice.

Have y'all seen how people in charge wanna act? Why would you just hand them help with no strings attached?

I don't really remember Obama as spineless lol what is he spineless about?

Look he's a politician they suck but acting like Obama wasn't one of the best presidents we had in like 40 years is silly.

He doesn't someone said it within the last hour or so to him