DdCno1 @ DdCno1 @kbin.social

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2 yr. ago

You do know that Arab Palestinians rejected the last offer the British made through the UN? This would have netted them far more land than they'll have ever a chance of ever controlling now. They wanted it all, without any Jews in it, and launched, with the help of the Arab "allies" (who would soon sideline them, e.g. during the Egyptian occupation of Gaza), to eliminate Israel and - in their words - drive the Jews into the sea. They failed and that's how they ended up expelled, powerless and stateless. Several more attempts followed, every time without success, until the Arab nations grew tired of losing against the IDF.

This violent rejection of the UN plan does not justify the Nakba (which was also used as an excuse to expel almost 1 million Jews from the Middle East and North Africa - two wrongs don't make a right) and the eternal conflict that came with it, but it would not have happened without the war the Arab side started.

Qatar is the primary source of external funding for Hamas. Israel allowed these funds through after having been pressured to do so - and they justified caving in to themselves that having two weak groups fighting each other instead of one strong group would be more advantageous to them. This was obviously a grave miscalculation, but if you want to blame anyone for the funding of Hamas, it's the country that owns Al Jazeera.

Why on Earth would Israel agree to a complete retreat and guaranteeing Hamas continued rule and the safety of its leadership? That is a complete non-starter.

Tens of thousands of Palestinians were working in Israel, earning several times their normal wage and feeding entire families in the West Bank and Gaza. Thousands were being treated in hospitals every year. There was a deal in the works for the exploitation of gas reserves off the coast of Gaza in the works that would have resulted in billions in income to Palestinians, as well as energy independence for Gaza. Negotiations were nearing completion when Hamas attacked on October 7.

There was actual progress being made, despite the constant friction due to settler violence and movement restrictions imposed upon on the people in the West Bank. None of the good things will ever happen again and it'll only get worse for Palestinians from here on out. These kinds of deals result in contact, cooperation and intermingling, which is the basic groundwork necessary for Palestinians and Israelis to realize that peaceful coexistence is beneficial to both sides.

Terrorists exploited any ounce of goodwill. Those workers working in communities close to the border in Gaza? At least some of them spied on their hosts, reporting back even where children were sleeping, based on the maps and notes found on killed terrorists. Those communities who were hit the hardest were left-leaning, pro-peace and pro-Palestine, almost unanimously voting against the likes of Netanyahu while being active and enthusiastic supporters of the Palestinian cause, protesting against the two-tier justice system, against indefinite detention, against the harsh restrictions Palestinians in the West Bank suffer from. This kind of advocacy is as good as over.

Hamas knowingly hit those the hardest who are the best friends of Palestine in Israel, because they know that this keeps the violent conflict alive they so desperately wish to culminate in the destruction of Israel. Nobody in Israel will ever trust a Palestinian again to work for them, for many decades to come - and this lack of trust will make making any deals with Palestinians near impossible. Even before Israel has built its new border wall between its territory and Gaza, there are already invisible walls between the two people that are much higher than any physical wall could ever be.

Do you consider the Hamas offer this is a counter to viable in any way?

Because they want to eliminate Hamas - and I don't blame them. You would have the same goals in their place. They cannot allow Hamas to continue their rule over the strip.

Not to mention, every past ceasefire was broken by Hamas, often mere minutes after it started. Hamas seeks these in order to make Israel look bad, because they know that their target audience will shift the blame for everything entirely onto Israel.

I find it deeply dishonest to portray this as a on-sided affair. Here's a list of terrorist attacks against Israel that just includes those happening between 1952 and 1966:

https://embassies.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/Maps/Pages/1948-1967-%20Major%20Terror%20Attacks.aspx

Palestinian terrorism is not a new development.

They were lying. It should be obvious to anyone that October 7 set back the two-state solution by many decades, if not forever.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-01/ty-article/hamas-official-we-will-repeat-october-7-attacks-until-israel-is-annihilated/0000018b-8b9d-db7e-af9b-ebdfbee90000

You need to get your news from different sources.

No offense, but you really didn't understand what I was saying at all. Agreeing to this preposterous proposal from Hamas would achieve absolutely nothing beneficial to the Israeli nor Palestinian people. There is no reducing tensions with a group that has repeatedly vowed to wipe out Israel and every Jew in the world while at the same time stating that they wish for more Palestinians civilians, men, women and children, to spill their blood for the cause.

Here's the best thing that could happen: Hamas gets defeated, the war ends and with it most of the dying, both from death and the terrible conditions in a war zone, and Israel elects a new, more moderate government that proves to be a more merciful victor. This is very likely, given how unpopular Netanyahu is. Everyone considers him a dead man walking politically. Even in the best of cases, Palestinian statehood is off the table for many decades to come however, as are any Israeli concessions or reforms to their justice system. Do you really think they'll give up on any security measures, no matter how cruel they are, like for example indefinite detention now or at any point in the future? How would you sell this to voters? Every single democracy that has experienced a terrorist attack goes through a period of crackdowns and more restrictive laws. It was the same in the US after 9/11, it was the same in the UK during the Troubles and after the 7/7 central London bombings, it was the same in France after Charlie Hebdo, etc. pp.

If there's one thing Hamas have achieved, it's bring the very people who were their most important allies, those left-leaning pacifist Israelis that live in the communities close to the border with Gaza - those most affected by the massacres - and were an important counterweight to the likes of Likud, up against them. I don't think you are even aware of the fact that they murdered and abducted key pro-Palestinian Israelis and with that act, they permanently shifted the entire Israeli public much further to the right. An Israel that is mourning the dead of the October 7 massacres, that has learned that any kind of appeasement will be interpreted as weakness and ruthlessly exploited, an Israel that is a victor over those who perpetrated the worst pogrom against Jews since the Holocaust will build higher walls than ever before, will dig deeper moats between themselves and Palestinians than ever before and it will be more defiant in that their cause is right than ever before.

The fact that the October 7 massacres inspired waves of antisemitic violence across the globe only further confirms to the Jewish people just how important having a Jewish homeland is, the only place in the world where a Jew doesn't have to think twice before wearing a kippah. If you have never experienced racist discrimination, then it is difficult to comprehend just how much this is worth alone.

Does it justify excessive force, does it justify settlers, indefinite detention, restrictions to movement, a two-tier bureaucracy and a two-tier justice system? Of course not, but to paraphrase and twist on its head what that embarrassment of a UN General Secretary said, these things aren't happening in a vacuum.

To Hamas, this sentence means Israel and everyone living there should stop existing. What does it mean to you?

That is one quality channel...

https://i.imgur.com/wyyU8gS.jpg

What is this nonsense? Those thumbnails can only be described as idiot-bait. Are you seriously expecting me or anyone else to take this seriously?

A rare moment of collective sanity in this place. Don't get used to it.

For as much as he's a bastard, Netanyahu is right this once. If Hamas were allowed to use hostages to buy their continued existence, then this would do nothing but to signal to them, once again, that taking hostages is an effective and worthwhile strategy, which alone is obviously not acceptable. They would do it again in the future, without a doubt. Any time the other side has shown anything what Hamas perceives as a weakness, like for example when the IAF didn't bomb a target in the mid-2000s, because the terror org herded hundreds of civilians there, they immediately use this "winning strategy" again and again, even if they are hurting themselves with it.

Hamas also cannot be allowed to continue their rule over Gaza after October 7. The islamofascist organization has to be destroyed just like Nazi Germany had to be destroyed in WW2, there is no other way of ending this war. Even a left-wing Israeli government would not stop until the organization is neutered to the point of not being a serious threat anymore.

Israel has been using a similar system since at least 2022:

https://petapixel.com/2022/06/29/the-xaver-1000-sees-through-walls-and-is-made-for-the-israeli-army/

It's pretty likely that they have shared this system with their closest allies, similar to how the Trophy missile defense system found its way onto German and American tanks.

By the way, those throwable cameras mentioned at the end of the article have been available to the IDF since 2005.

Remember when he was widely being portrayed as the intelligent version of Trump we should all be afraid of?

Mixing used and new hardware is the cheat code. A used RTX 2080 beats Xbox Series X and PS5, yet it can be found for only about 200 bucks. The rest of the hardware can be new. That's how I did it.

Speaking from experience with this firm, this bot spoke the truth.

There was no resistance at My Lai. It was an unprovoked massacre.

This situation couldn't be any more different. Responding to an attack, even with potentially disproportionate force, is in no way comparable to raping and gunning down hundreds of civilians. I think you know that.

The "discharge was directed towards a perceived threat," described by the police statement as Palestinian individuals throwing rocks along a highway.

I have seen the aftermath of rocks being thrown on passing cars. If this 17-year-old did that, then he was not a civilian shot at random.