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Communist @ communist @lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz Posts 1Comments 731Joined 1 yr. ago
Communist @ communist @lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz
Posts
1
Comments
731
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1 yr. ago
because I realized I could improve it and you hadn't replied yet, I just added the link to kepler gpus
No, it's a fact for everyone.
My source is a survey with thousands of respondants, your source is dude just trust me. It's a fact, you can cover your ears and go lalala but it changes nothing
...no, it's a statistical fact, look at my sources.
I demonstrated that was statistically false
...you mean western countries where nvidia gpu's are the most common?
If we're including beginners in developing countries this is even less common of an issue, when I was in india, not a single person I helped with tech had a graphics card, why would they have a 470xx series driver gpu and not an integrated system? It's not even the cheapest choice. I recently built a PC in india, coincidentally, and we ended up going with an integrated system for a gaming PC.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/
i mean, look at these stats, it's such a minority it's hardly worth mention. You'll probably say "these are just the steam stats, most of them aren't on steam anyway!" But if they're not using steam/proton... they almost definitely aren't using xwayland anyway so the issues don't apply to them in the first place.
compare that to the list on the hardware survey and you'll see how unbelievably rare this problem actually is. They don't even make the list, it's less than a 1% issue.
...the vast majority of beginners do not have 10+ year old hardware.
I want everyone except those who use 10+ year old hardware to move, and in fact, that's exactly what i've recommended in the past.
here I am making that exact recommendation:
https://lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz/post/53716147/18224187
We shouldn't be recommending things for a tiny niche, we should be recommending what's best on average, and as we learn about the specific needs of a user, then recommend things specifically for that user.
And it still is. Being expected to use slightly different software when you're using a 10+ year old hardware setup is not weird. Furthermore, this is an issue with the nvidia driver support, which is proprietary, the open source drivers have no such problems. And again, this will be nearly completely solved once steam/proton stop needing xwayland.
I desperately want a smithay based hyprland clone... hyprland is just so unbelievably good, shame about the dev.
Bazzite makes it ridiculously easy, there's just a dropdown to select the nvidia version of their ISO. It's also a great distro for beginners for a lot of reasons:
bazzite and other immutables generate a new system for you on update and let you switch between and rollback automatically, this is fantastic for reliability, but it also has pretty up to date software, and tons of guides (fedora is one of the most popular distros, and bazzite is essentially identical except with some QoL upgrades).
there's also aurora if you want the same thing without some addons for gamers.
I thought you were referring to having to install ancient drivers that are no longer properly supported, that is still a problem on x.org, but if we use nouveau, the problems go away for the most part.
it appears the only real issue with nvidia drivers from back then on wayland is accelerated xwayland according to the arch wiki. I don't think we shouldn't be recommending wayland because over 10 year old gpus have a relatively minor issue but still work.
Sure, if you have ancient hardware, I actually recommend XFCE, but outside of this one niche case, it's not wise to be recommending it.
Once steam and proton/wine get rid of xwayland... there won't be many xwayland apps that are used on a daily basis, however, when that happens, I don't think this will still stand.
The nvidia thing is also a problem for x.org
rpm-ostree is fedora specific, but essentially, yes, it applies a layer ontop of the base immutable system with the package changes you want.
So you don’t have stats you have anecdotal evidence.
Actually, these are appeals to authority, a major distro is telling you not to use LTS kernel versions... people who y'know, have stats
"Recently we have had a number of issues with hardware regressions on the LTS kernels, rendering systems with newer hardware unbootable."
Directly from the source of a major distro... I don't think you actually read my sources.
It clearly requires a source because Cinnamon 6.0 has Wayland as an experimental support and Mint team has said they are planning to eventually move to Wayland[5].
that's exactly what i've said... nothing i've said contradicts that, just that it's going to take forever for that to get good. Gnome and KDE already have full proper support and have for ages. Cinnamon will take FOREVER. Notice they only extremely recently launched EXPERIMENTAL support, it's not even supported yet. Cinnamon development is incredibly slow: https://github.com/linuxmint/cinnamon/pulse/monthly
compare that to JUST the kde text editor: https://github.com/KDE/kate/pulse/monthly
Clearly implying you should expect running into issues.
The hilarity of this is that those issues are BECAUSE of their choice to be insanely stable (note: this yet again means UNCHANGING)... modern KDE versions have minimal such issues. You just accidentally made yet another point AGAINST your case.
In theory. Except in practice we’re not talking about kernels that are 5+ years old. Latest Mint version is running on Ubuntu Noble which is using Kernel version 6.8 which supports all the latest CPU-s and GPU-s. Just because it’s not using the very latest kernel version doesn’t mean it’s not capable of supporting the latest hardware.
Actually, the problem is more fundamental: https://lwn.net/Articles/700530/
And maybe it supports the hardware, but there are performance and instability issues that can't or haven't been backported... honestly, don't you think all stable distros would only be using LTS kernels if there weren't issues with them?
Not really though, you can still see them from the other account, so meh
Vnc works perfectly, and I think we're talking 10 or more years old with the nvidia thing...
I hadn't seen that before the change? I didn't even know there was one.
https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=213095
https://discuss.getsol.us/d/6564-cant-boot-into-the-lts-kernel/3
https://discuss.getsol.us/d/4899-let-s-talk-about-the-lts-kernels
lts kernels should not be used with newer hardware... because they don't have modern software support, anyone that uses modern hardware risks being unable to boot with them. I shouldn't have said crashes but the issues are numerous.
The second thing doesn't require a source, they don't have the manpower to implement it in cinnamon, look at the github pulse: https://github.com/linuxmint/cinnamon/pulse
https://wiki.debian.org/Wayland debian, notorious for being the most stable distro by far already uses it by default...
At this point I don't even know what that means because maybe you have some other weird definition to pull out of your ass. Give me that in 5th grader level.
i have only used industry standard terminology and what I said is straightforward... kernel has drivers, old kernel no has new drivers, new drivers needed for hardware support, lts kernel old.
Mint focuses on stability reliability as evident from its decision to use Ubuntu LTS versions as it’s base. In case I need to spell it out, LTS versions are generally more reliable.
This is false, they're just less likely to change. They can crash more frequently.
And you brought up X11 as a negative, but there’s a good reason Mint is staying on X11. Yes, Wayland is the future and eventually Mint will adopt Wayland as well, when Wayland becomes more stable reliable. I’m the mean time Mint stays on X11 because X11 is very stable reliable, extremely stable reliable compared to Wayland if you have an Nvidia card.
There's no evidence that X11 is less reliable than wayland, and the reason mint stays on x11 has NOTHING to do with this, and everything to do with cinnamon not yet supporting it...
Mint also has better out the box support. For example to my knowledge for Nvidia Fedora comes with Nouvuea drivers which means for gaming you need to go through an extra process to get proprietary drivers. Mint has out the box support for Nvidia drivers. This is less of a thing when compared to Bazzite, but still a reason why to pick Mint as a beginner distro.
This is still false, stable distros have worse support out of the box because they use an older kernel version and the kernel ships the drivers.
That set of fixes still left everything being wrong or unsupported by any evidence.
The only valid choice is 3, I want the full weight of the fork to be the tongs so they don't knock cups over. 2 is TERRIBLE